Do the Bonuses and penalties of Runeforge apply to Virtuous characters or just Sinful ones


Rise of the Runelords


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

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Both. I believe it's stated somewhere in the AP that Virtuous characters will also have said bonuses or penalties apply. And it's how I worked it (and did keep track of both Virtues and Sins).


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Just sinful ones. P.255 says

"It’s certainly likely you have characters who aren’t
sinners, or who are honestly virtuous. In either of these
events, simply leave their sins blank—these characters
find that while there isn’t a wing of Runeforge where
they feel particularly welcome, neither do they take
penalties for being in a wing that opposes their sin."

But I think I would rule it more similar to what Tangent101 says. I wouldn't like penalizing my players for playing a virtuous character. Though it also gives them less penalties.

I'm thinking of using a rule like this: sinful characters get the mechanical bonus in the room of their sin, the non-mechanical bonus (like not being attacked) in the room of their sin, and the mechanical penalty in the two opposite rooms. Virtuous characters get the mechanical bonus in the two opposite rooms, the mechanical penalty in the room of the corresponding sin, and maybe some story penalty in the room of the corresponding sin. But I haven't read this chapter entirely yet, and I don't know if this rule makes sense with the Runeforged weapons or with Thassilonian magic.


I'd have to pull out the book in question but I believe Runeforged weapons specifically work fine for Virtuous characters of the appropriate Virtue (corresponding to the Sin).

Grand Lodge

My party is reaching Runeforge today. Here's how I'm running all of this.

- I've been keeping track of the party's seven deadly sins, as well as asked each of them what they think their PC's sin is. In cases of discrepancy, I typically go with what the player instead thinks of as the PC's sin, with one exception (one particular character has almost never demonstrated Envy, and has the most ticks in Pride out of anyone, despite stating their sin was Envy).

- Because the seven deadly sins are also corruptions of Thassilonian virtues, these sins are typically referred to as 'virtues' within Runeforge itself. (Specifically wealth, righteous anger, eager striving, fertility, honest pride, etc.).

- I've also kept track of the party's 'inverted sins', more traditional virtues, as the Anniversary Edition tells you to.

Runeforge Wings: People will only feel 'welcome' in a wing of Runeforge if their sin matches the wing, and feel out of place in their opposition wings. 'Inverted sin' virtues don't apply here.

Runeforged Weapons: To get the 'matching sin' bonus on a Runeforged weapon, you must fit one of the following:

a) Your sin matches one of the opposition wings used to forge the weapon. For dominant weapons, that means lust or pride.
a) Your virtue is the 'inverted sin' of the sin opposed by the weapon. For dominant weapons, that is Charity.

Why?: My reasoning is that, if characters are truly virtuous, they will not feel welcome in Runeforge, powered by sin magic, under any circumstances. On the other hand, runeforged weapons are built to destroy something antithetical to them - while I think opposition school sins easily dovetail here, I think the 'inverted virtue' matching is better for ideologically challenging what greed and greed magic stood for. These virtues are the ones that the Runelords failed to account for, after all.

I'm quite sure this doesn't follow the book's guidelines, but I think it works well enough.

Here's my party for reference:
Cordelia Vianu-Rodripal: Sin of Pride / Virtue of Diligence (or compassion, as acknowledged in-game).
Yllemsa: Sin of Wrath / Virtue of Patience (these two make no sense as they are inversions of each other - but Yllemsa's wrath comes from their runewell brand. Their true sin is Sloth.)
Ithil Hin: Sin of Lust / Virtue of Gratitude
Haast Lioneye: Sin of Greed / Virtue of Diligence
Iago: Sin of Envy / No Virtues
Nualia: Sin of Lust / No Virtues (Also compassion)

They've got a good spread of sins and virtues, and aren't under the impression they need to make anti-Shalastian weapons specifically. I expect Cordelia to pick up a Parasitic weapon (hates enchanters), Haast to pick up a Tyrannical weapon (hates outsiders), Yllemsa to pick up a Covetous weapon (wants to destroy Alaznist's artifacts), Ithil to pick up a Dominant weapon (it's a fusion of his favorite sins and fits his niche), and I have no idea about Iago. They're bringing Nualia as well, and she's likely to get a Parasitic weapon.

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