Combo with Devise a Stratagem

[SuperBidi]

Hi everyone,

I was thinking that the Summoner is certainly the best character (outside the Investigator) to get the best out of Devise a Stratagem. Just grab a bow and depending on the roll choose which of your attacks will use the die and which attacks will be your Eidolon's.
Pretty neat combo if you want my opinion.

[shroudb]

I dont think there's enough payoff since the summoner attack is a weak one either way (caster proficiencies and no add ons on it)

So, you use an action to Stratagem, and let say it shows that it's a hit. You now spend a second action to do a weak attack and force a -5 on the Eidolon stronger attack.

[Pinstripedbarbarian]

It is a potentially neat combo if you want to make a more martial summoner. Maybe not super optimal, but it would help shore up your offenses on a class that otherwise isn't great at weapon combat.

[SuperBidi]

shroudb wrote:

I dont think there's enough payoff since the summoner attack is a weak one either way (caster proficiencies and no add ons on it)

So, you use an action to Stratagem, and let say it shows that it's a hit. You now spend a second action to do a weak attack and force a -5 on the Eidolon stronger attack.

You don't care of proficiency as you know the result of the roll. If you compare a Longbow user to the Eidolon:

- d8 die
- Same Striking Rune
- Same Elemental Rune

So, you lose Greater Weapon Specialization and Strength bonus: 9 damage at level 20, 23% less damage than an Eidolon hit.

Which is summed up by:
I pay 1 action: If it's a miss, my MAP doesn't increase, it's a +5 to all my attacks of the round. If it's a hit, I get an autohit on the best attack to get it (if I roll high enough I'll use the second attack and don't affect my Eidolon chances to hit). If it's a natural 20, I deal an automatic critical success on my third attack (or second if someone needs to move), and the Deadly d10 compensate the damage difference. That sounds really good to me. It's hard to make all the calculations but I'm pretty sure I decently increase my damage output.
And then, I can also raise the case where Devise a Stratagem is a free action and it's an autohit for free every 2 rounds!

[shroudb]

i fail to see how it's a +5 on all your attacks.

it's advantage on a single weaker attack (out of eidolon vs you). Proficiency does matter because it does make it harder to hit regardless if you know what you rolled or not. (that is, the harder you naturally hit, the more often than not it's just spend 1action to do nothing)

As said above, if for some reason you want to play a "martial summoner" and you find a way to shore up his weak attacks somehow, you can tag that in, but as a general usability, it just makes your rounds weaker.

At level 20 the eidolon already has (at least) +2 above your own attack bonus, so the "advantage" effect is basically:

spend 1 action to get +2 - +3 on one attack that does 23% damage less (using your numbers) vs spending the same action to give +8 damage to all of the attacks of your Eidolon.

[SuperBidi]

I checked and with complete knowledge it increases damage by 5% against an enemy of your level.
You're right, it's not awesome...

Maybe I should check if you use a Greatsword instead of a Longbow. I may check one day...

[MaxAstro]

I am becoming more convinced by the day that doing the math ruins this game.

Will the player running this combo have fun and feel like they are contributing?

I suspect the answer is yes, and that makes it a perfectly fine combo in my book.

[Charlesfire]

MaxAstro wrote:

I am becoming more convinced by the day that doing the math ruins this game.

I disagree. Some people just like doing maths.

[SuperBidi]

Well, you still gain 5% extra damage. So, it is a valid combo, considering how the game maths are tight. And if you face a high AC enemy, the combo gets better as secondary attacks get less important compared to first attacks.
Also, if you manage to Devise a Stratagem as a free action, it gets really good by giving you an auto hit attack every 2 rounds.

So, the combo's fine, just not as good as I thought it would be.
Also, I think it's pretty funny to switch between bow attacks and Eidolon attacks and it doesn't cost you much as you need a fully runed weapon anyway.

[Xenocrat]

MaxAstro wrote:

I am becoming more convinced by the day that doing the math ruins this game.

Will the player running this combo have fun and feel like they are contributing?

I suspect the answer is yes, and that makes it a perfectly fine combo in my book.

If the player mistakenly feels like they are contributing and people who are capable of arithmetic know he's not that might still be a problem if he's playing with people who aren't in the dark.