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Each implement school is represented by a small list of objects. Every day, the occultist selects one item from that school’s list to be his implement for the day for each implement school he knows. The occultist needs only one such item to cast spells of the corresponding school, unless he selected that implement school multiple times, in which case he needs one item for each set of spells gained from that school. Implements don’t need to be magic items, and nonmagical implements don’t take up a magic item slot even if they’re worn. Implements that are not magic items are often of some historical value or of personal significance to the occultist, such as the finger bone of a saint, the broken scepter of a long-dead king, the skull of a mentor’s familiar, or the glass eye of an uncanny ancestor.
Whenever an occultist casts a spell, he must have the corresponding implement in his possession and present the implement to the target or toward the area of effect. This act is part of casting the spell and doesn’t require any additional action. If the occultist lacks the corresponding implement, he can attempt to cast the spell, but must succeed at a concentration check (DC = 20 + the spell’s level) to do so. Spells cast by an occultist without the appropriate implement are always treated as if they were cast at the minimum caster level for the spell in question (caster level 1st for a 1st-level spell, caster level 4th for a 2nd-level spell, and so on).
also, just shut that down. say no. its just as obvious as any other spell casting. make them show you a rule that states otherwise, since you still know the origin of a stilled, silent spell RAW
also, sense motive
Sense Enchantment: You can tell that someone’s behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect even if that person isn’t aware of it. The usual DC is 25, but if the target is dominated (see dominate person), the DC is only 15 because of the limited range of the target’s activities.
Flagged for Wrong Forum, as this is 1st edition specific rules question, not about Paizo in general, so it will probably get moved by moderators.
Anyways, the "present[ing] the implement to the target" is pretty obvious itself, not to mention Spellcraft implicitly states that ALL spellcasting has visual phenomenon apparent to any witnesses, given that "able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast" is requirement to use Spellcraft to ID spell, without specifying it only works vs Somatic or Material component spells. Recognizing a spellcasting by it's components is actually a DIFFERENT action using Knowledge check NOT Spellcraft, so that certainly isn't involved with Spellcraft ID check... leaving only the implict visual phenomenon of spellcasting itself, which is what is sufficient to allow Spellcraft check to ID (but is still apparent magical activity even without any Spellcraft check).
This was further clarified in official FAQ which states: (1stEd product FAQs located under Help icon at top of screen)
What exactly do I identify when I’m using Spellcraft to identify a spell? Is it the components, since spell-like abilities, for instance, don’t have any? If I can only identify components, would that mean that I can’t take an attack of opportunity against someone using a spell-like ability (or spell with no verbal, somatic, or material components) or ready an action to shoot an arrow to disrupt a spell-like ability? If there’s something else, how do I know what it is?
Although this isn’t directly stated in the Core Rulebook, many elements of the game system work assuming that all spells have their own manifestations, regardless of whether or not they also produce an obvious visual effect, like fireball. You can see some examples to give you ideas of how to describe a spell’s manifestation in various pieces of art from Pathfinder products , but ultimately, the choice is up to your group, or perhaps even to the aesthetics of an individual spellcaster, to decide the exact details. Whatever the case, these manifestations are obviously magic of some kind, even to the uninitiated; this prevents spellcasters that use spell-like abilities, psychic magic, and the like from running completely amok against non-spellcasters in a non-combat situation. Special abilities exist (and more are likely to appear in Ultimate Intrigue) that specifically facilitate a spellcaster using chicanery to misdirect people from those manifestations and allow them to go unnoticed, but they will always provide an onlooker some sort of chance to detect the ruse.
(my emphasis in italics, and my commentary in )
Anyhow, apart from rules issue itself, the fact this player was persistent in pushing this intepretation of rules against other player characters in way disruptive enough to warrant you posting about the subject clearly is a question of their personal character and social interactions. Somebody intent on imposing their own narrow interpretation over others' enjoyment, whether they are right or wrong, clearly is itself problem worth confronting. If this is personal friend then you are unlikely to want to end friendship over this, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed.
I am confortable saying that even if they never read the FAQ before (which should be basic part of playing game), the fact they couldn't put 2 and 2 together to make proper inference from Spellcraft's "able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast" clause (and no requirement of specific components) means it's more than justified to take away their rules lawyer licence completely, for total incompetence... never mind the domineering mentality they exhibited. I would not tolerate any more attempts to impose rules interpretations or debate such topics, they lost their credibility and good will.
Occultist or Mesmerist?
OP said Mesmerist in post.
Regardless, in either case the caster is blinking magic runes floating around their head or dazzling energy etc. when they cast a spell. So yeah everyone knows you're casting Occult caster or not.
On another note people know when a Paladin does a detect evil. As that's a spell like ability. Just one I know I've done wrong before and I've never seen it done right in game.
Regardless of which psychic spellcasting class they are playing, their thought and emotion components are still capable of being detected, though they may not be as instantly apparent as verbal and somatic components. Thought components are generally imperceptible without the use of detect thoughts or similar abilities, while emotion components are physically manifest in behavior as well as expression. And that is before the visible manifestation of the spell as per the spellcraft FAQ...
If they are playing an Occultist specifically however... they must be in contact with their implement for that school to cast the spell... if they are not able to access their implement they must make a rather high caster level check or fail to cast the spell... both outcomes are quite obvious to onlookers... you are either holding an occult implement and trying to act like your doing nothing, or you are straining your concentration to cast a spell... it’s not imperceptible...
Just to clarify, the quote Quandary posted can be found by clicking HERE.
This is an official rule, and it basically means that your player is incorrect. Anyone trained in Spellcraft who can see the caster gets a check every time the caster begins casting. Anyone untrained can still see that the PC is casting, though if she's careful about it she could use stealth etc to avoid being seen while casting and avoid the issue.
On another level, you are the GM and if you think a rule is making the game less fun for the people at your table you are absolutely within your rights to change it.
Finally, casting offensive spells on other PCs is pretty taboo unless the group has discussed it and agreed to it beforehand. If you have a player intentionally messing with other PCs and upsetting other players then you have a bully in the group. If everyone is fine with it then go ahead, have fun. If everyone is NOT fine with it just tell your player she has play well with the others or she won't be welcome at the table. This isn't about rules, it's about making the table a safe space where everyone can enjoy themselves.
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Just to point it out:
- the target of a spell that makes his/her/its save know that he has been the target of a spell;
- the target of a successful spell will probably notice his abnormal behavior after the spell ends. It depends on the spell and how subtly the caster used the effect;
- other PCs can notice the effect of the spell on the target, generally with sense motive, and, after noticing it, could make Knowledge Arcana check to try to guess what happened.
Starting inter-party violence by casting spells on unwilling targets will probably end very badly.