Cloak of the Manta Ray

[Hobit of Bree]

I'm trying to understand how a Cloak of the Mantra Ray works.

1. Does the wearer still have use of his arms? It says "The wearer can release his arms from the cloak without sacrificing underwater movement if so desired." It also says that the wearer "...appears nearly identical to a manta ray (as the beast shape II spell, except that it allows only manta ray form)." Can he swing a sword or is he beast shaped into a manta ray? With beast shape the answer would be no, but the "appears nearly identical" and the ability to release arms would seem really strong evidence that arms can be used to make weapon attacks.

2. If the answer to 1 is "yes", what happens with the sting? I'd think it would count as a secondary attack, but the "using his highest melee attack bonus" makes me feel that perhaps it doesn't count as a secondary attack.

3. The wearer also gets low-light vision, yes?

4. Anyone know why you get a +3 natural armor bonus? The beast shaping into a medium creature should give a +2. Seems weird. Is this a holdover from 3.5?

[avr]

1: yes, the item excepts itself from the general rule there.

2: it's pretty clear about the highest melee attack bonus and mentions that close to the bit about freeing your arms to attack.

3: yes, as beast shape II as it says.

4: yes, manta rays had entirely different stats in 3.5 and polymorph worked differently.

[pad300]

A bit of thread necromancy because I have questions about the utility of the Cloak of the Manta Ray... It specifically tells you what bonuses you get (which don't match BS II) and doesn't mention a bunch of limitations which you perhaps inherit as a polymorph effect

1) Can you speak when transformed? I think this is a no because of Beast Shape II... (This would be a major negative as it negates much spellcasting ability and skills, even if you can free your hands.)

2) What happens with your gear (BS II has it absorbed and non-functional)? You can free your hands, does your gear come with them? Assume a sword and board fighter type with a breastplate for armor, when he frees his hands does he have a) his sword, b) his shield, c) neither?

[TeggerTheTank]

pad300 wrote:

A bit of thread necromancy because I have questions about the utility of the Cloak of the Manta Ray... It specifically tells you what bonuses you get (which don't match BS II) and doesn't mention a bunch of limitations which you perhaps inherit as a polymorph effect

1) Can you speak when transformed? I think this is a no because of Beast Shape II... (This would be a major negative as it negates much spellcasting ability and skills, even if you can free your hands.)

2) What happens with your gear (BS II has it absorbed and non-functional)? You can free your hands, does your gear come with them? Assume a sword and board fighter type with a breastplate for armor, when he frees his hands does he have a) his sword, b) his shield, c) neither?

My closest interpretation:

1) No, unfortunately, as the manta ray does not naturally have the ability to speak.

2) I would rule that anything you were holding at the time of transformation would still be held after releasing them. Though it should be noted that attacks underwater would have to follow the rules of underwater combat.

[Diego Rossi]

Quote:

At that time, the cloak of the manta ray adheres to the individual, and he appears nearly identical to a manta ray (as the beast shape II spell, except that it allows only manta ray form).

It all depends on how "adheres" work and how much you think that therm has a game mechanics effect. Coming from earlier versions of the game, I read it as "the cloak disguises you as a manta ray and gives the listed powers", not as "the cloak polymorph you into a manta ray".

But I read it that way because I have played the earlier versions of the game. With Pathfinder rules about polymorphing the water are muddier. The only valid reply is "ask your GM and use his interpretation." If you are the GM, decide what you think do work better.

[TeggerTheTank]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Quote:

At that time, the cloak of the manta ray adheres to the individual, and he appears nearly identical to a manta ray (as the beast shape II spell, except that it allows only manta ray form).

It all depends on how "adheres" work and how much you think that therm has a game mechanics effect. Coming from earlier versions of the game, I read it as "the cloak disguises you as a manta ray and gives the listed powers", not as "the cloak polymorph you into a manta ray".

But I read it that way because I have played the earlier versions of the game. With Pathfinder rules about polymorphing the water are muddier. The only valid reply is "ask your GM and use his interpretation." If you are the GM, decide what you think do work better.

I believe the important text is: "(as the beast shape II spell, except that it allows only manta ray form)."

It then lists the benefits you gain from that form as any beast shape ability would. The fact that it limits what form you can take, only manta ray, implies to me that it is just beast shape II but with caveats.