Hybridization Funnel - Is it reusable?

[J Scot Shady]

I've been tinkering with an alchemist (not a tinkerer though) and I keep coming back to this item. It's cost is really low and it seems to be a good item, but it doesn't say it is consumed in being used. I've seen a few comments that 200g for a reusable item isn't that high (I agree) but that leads me to believe in the concept if something is too good to be true, it likely isn't.

Does anyone have any official word on this? Does anyone have an opinion to share? Thanks.

[Neriathale]

It is reusable.

Bear in mind that to use it you need to spend 10 minutes and make a DC 25 alchemy check. Then if you don’t use the resulting mix in 24 hours you’ve wasted the ingredients. At low levels the DC and cost of ingredients is non-trivial, at higher levels alchemical weapons aren’t that impressive. But at the righ level (4-8ish) it’s a great item.

[Belafon]

I don’t know how people are getting the idea that this is a consumable item. Items that are destroyed in use either explicitly say so or are part of a category (alchemical items) that are explicitly consumed on use.

Heck, someone probably used a 200 gp alchemist’s lab to make those splash weapons in the first place and I don’t think anyone is arguing that it gets destroyed every time you make a splash weapon.

As Neriathale says, the real cost balancing of the Hybridization Funnel is that you are committing to use the end product within 24 hours (or lose it). Either way you have spent the cost of two splash weapons.

[Scott Wilhelm]

I don't see anything in the description that suggests single use only. It looks reusable to me.

So, what are you plotting? Favor us with your evil plan to ruin the game with your permanent hybridization funnel.

[Name Violation]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I don't see anything in the description that suggests single use only. It looks reusable to me.

So, what are you plotting? Favor us with your evil plan to ruin the game with your permanent hybridization funnel.

Grenadier alchemist with missile bombs, a channeling weapon, raining arrows, and using alchemical weapon.

D8+#s - arrow
2d4+int - holy water (only vs some stuff)
1/2 level d6s +int - bomb (missile)
1/2 level d6s +int - bomb (channel)
D6+int - alchemist fire (alchemical weapon)
D6+int - acid (hybrid funnel with fire added to alchemical weapon)
Possibly throw in the kirin style feats to add more int to damage

Also, a bunch of splash damage

[Firebug]

Alchemical Weapon (via Grenadier) doesn't have splash damage.
Raining Arrow is vs normal AC and another -2 to hit.
Explosive Missile does nothing on miss, you don't roll for scatter.
Kirin Style takes a swift action to enter, a second swift action to identify the creature, and a third swift action to actually get the damage bonus. Its almost unusable because by the time you can actually get the bonus the creature has had 3 rounds to kill your party.

I prefer Tangleshot Arrows, even though they don't increase damage directly (in fact, do no damage by themselves).
It automatically entangles which lowers the target's AC. A -1 to hit, but you get to target Touch AC. But I also like tacking on more conditions as opposed to damage. Like using Sand Bomb, Alchemical Weapon(Ghast Retch Flask), Tangleshot Arrows, Channeling Weapon(Void Bomb).

[Name Violation]

Firebug wrote:

Alchemical Weapon (via Grenadier) doesn't have splash damage.

Raining Arrow is vs normal AC and another -2 to hit.
Explosive Missile does nothing on miss, you don't roll for scatter.
Kirin Style takes a swift action to enter, a second swift action to identify the creature, and a third swift action to actually get the damage bonus. Its almost unusable because by the time you can actually get the bonus the creature has had 3 rounds to kill your party.

I prefer Tangleshot Arrows, even though they don't increase damage directly (in fact, do no damage by themselves).
It automatically entangles which lowers the target's AC. A -1 to hit, but you get to target Touch AC. But I also like tacking on more conditions as opposed to damage. Like using Sand Bomb, Alchemical Weapon(Ghast Retch Flask), Tangleshot Arrows, Channeling Weapon(Void Bomb).

That's the difference. You prefer to give a bunch of conditions. The only condition i care about applying is dead.

The character’s hit points are reduced to a negative amount equal to his Constitution score, his Constitution drops to 0, or he is killed outright by a spell or effect. The character’s soul leaves his body. Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic. A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved, but magic that restores a dead character to life also restores the body either to full health or to its condition at the time of death (depending on the spell or device). Either way, resurrected characters need not worry about rigor mortis, decomposition, and other conditions that affect dead bodies.
They might not be blind, entangled, grappled, tripped, dazed, and staggered, but when they're dead they don't need to be

[Firebug]

Name Violation wrote:

That's the difference. You prefer to give a bunch of conditions. The only condition i care about applying is dead.

Ok, but my conditions increase my chance to hit. Are you killing the target in 1 hit? What is your chance to hit at AC +2 (Raining Arrow) compared to Touch AC +1 (Tangleshot Arrow), and second round Flat-Footed Touch AC -3 (entangled, blinded)? What is the damage different between the two of us?

Math:

Doing a quick search, average(mean) AC at CR 10 is 23.4, so you are shooting at a 25. Average(mean) Touch AC is 12.3, so I am shooting for a 14 on round 1. A swing of 11 points on round 1, meaning you would have to be doing more than twice my damage per hit to average the same amount per round (DPR) because if you miss, you deal 0 damage. Using the same resource, the average(mean) hit points of a CR 10 is 124.5. If everything you mentioned rolled maximum: 10d6 +2d4 +1d8 +2d6 +Str(say +5 mod) +Intx5(say +7 mod) you are looking at 128 damage to one-shot the CR 10 on average. With 15 dice though, its likely you will roll average and get something like 91.5 damage. Factor in your chance to hit, and you are probably looking at about 45-50 DPR, and I am looking at 70 DPR with the same stats assuming you have a +15 to hit at 10. Also, you need 3 high ability scores (Str/Dex/Int) and I need at most 2 (Dex/Int) and can probably go easy on the Dex since in the example I am hitting on 2s even with an additional -2 to the attack roll.

TL:DR "Math". You likely need a 10 on the die to hit, I only need a 2 even taking another -2 to the attack roll. Even maximized Dice, neither of us 1-shot a CR 10 at 10.

The only difference is the Raining Arrow damage itself, since we haven't even talked about Ghast Wretch Flask (which frankly helps the party more than it helps us, since Sand Bomb doesn't care about DC as much), and I am a strong proponent of Hybridization Funnel already. If you are looking for damage, I generally suggest Hybriding Alkali and Acid Flasks because they are cheaper then Alchemist's Fire and are a generally less resisted damage type instead of pinging both Fire and Acid.

Name Violation wrote:

They might not be blind, entangled, grappled, tripped, dazed, and staggered, but when they're dead they don't need to be

So, is 1d8+Str +2d4+Int (vs some things) worth losing +11 to hit? I seriously doubt it's doubling your damage considering the rest of your damage should be something like 2xBomb(5d6+Int) + 2xAlchemical(1d6+Int) at level 10 which the builds have in common.

[J Scot Shady]

Neriathale wrote:

It is reusable.

Bear in mind that to use it you need to spend 10 minutes and make a DC 25 alchemy check. Then if you don’t use the resulting mix in 24 hours you’ve wasted the ingredients. At low levels the DC and cost of ingredients is non-trivial, at higher levels alchemical weapons aren’t that impressive. But at the righ level (4-8ish) it’s a great item.

Thank you Neriathale for your feedback.