So the PC's just took down Ironbriar in the mill. The wizard tossed a fireball and the place is currently on fire and about to go completely ablaze, maybe even blow given the flammable particulates in the air. They grabbed the footlocker (thus, the evidence) and will most likely leave Ironbriar in the mill. That's where we ended the session.
Question. . . do I have witnesses see them leaving the now-burning mill? Time in-game is around 9 AM. If so, do I have the City Watch go after them? This seems like such a headache and might make getting them into the next chapter really, really difficult. Plus, I have no idea how to actually run a courtroom drama session.
However, I want to keep verisimilitude by having serious consequences for reckless approaches to problem-solving.
I searched around and apparently this has happened before (ha surprise, surprise) but in those instances Ironbriar was left alive which led to major involvement on his part.
Pretty new DM here, by the way, so I feel a little concerned about creating problems I don't yet have the experience to help resolve.
Thanks in advance for any help!!!
TL;DR: what are the consequences of burning down the mill in the process of defeating Ironbriar?
Use a good constable on their side. Perhaps he had relatives in Sandpoint that they saved from the goblins or ghoul murders on their farm.
He/she gives them early warning that an arrest warrant is forthcoming, push them to Xanesha sooner and let them find evidence that Ironbriar was a major part of the murders and a leader of a murderous cult. Their dealing with this should be enough to exonerate them.
Phntm888 and Sunderstone, those are great options, thanks! Phntm888, not to ask you to build this thing for me but any thoughts as to why (with a high diplomacy roll) the commander of the Watch would let a group of unknowns go in after Xanesha as opposed to sending in her most elite and skilled group of twenty fighters? I'm a little stumped but reading your post made me feel like I wasn't backed into quite the corner I thought I was.
Thinking maybe this:
1.) They're spotted coming out of the burning building.
2.) They realize they need to lay low while deciphering the journal for a couple of days.
3.) They're tipped off by Sunderstone's good constable that there's manhunt on for them.
4.) They have a close call involving nearly being caught or something.
5.) They go to Xanesha, defeat her, find her journal and discover that they just saved the Mayor's life.
6.) They're caught by the City Watch, thrown in the Hells for a day or two, then are interrogated and clear their name via the journal, Lucrecia's letter, and the good word of Mayor Deverin and Sheriff Hemlock.
7.) Mayor Grobaras summons them, thanks them for saving his life, tells them that if they follow up on the "star murder" leads that he's received word of in Turtleback Ferry (maybe a corpse is in Magnimar for autopsy), he'll wave their liability with regard to the mill.
Of course, because it's D&D, what actually happens will look nothing like this but at least, thanks to you two, I have a skeleton.
TL;DR PC's burned down the Seven's sawmill, I was stumped about how to proceed but now have some idea of how to handle it (see numbered list above, if interested).
That’s a great point, Phntm888, thanks for the reply. And for the reminder about keeping them in the holding cells in the Arvensoar. Will do.
My players accidentally burned the sawmill (also with fireball), put out the fire again, and killed Ironbriar as he fled the burning building. Both townspeople and the city watch witnessed it, and my players were captured and put on trial. If you do decide to go this route, I could share my notes on how to run it. My players loved the courtroom drama, coming up with evidence of their innocence and such, however they did not like being captured by guards and sitting in jail doing nothing while bad guys were out there.
Oh, man, that’d be amazing, Lawrencelot! Many thanks for the offer. Feel free to pm me or post here, whichever you prefer. For what it’s worth, the session is tomorrow night so if you have time to post prior to then, great! If not, no worries at all.
Many thanks again!
Alright, I don't have time to tidy up my notes but I can share what I have. Also feel free to send me a message if something is unclear.
Here is a report of what happened in my campaign (LINK).
Here is the council of 13 justices that I used (LINK), with the mayor standing in for the dead Ironbriar. I know that doesn't make too much sense politically but Magnimar's laws are vague and I wanted my players to meet the mayor. The numbers indicate the order in which they can be persuaded, with the mayor being the hardest to persuade of the party's innocence. Judge 12 is Bayl Argentine.
This is the stat sheet for the lawyer in Magnimar, called Ninian, that my players found after asking around (LINK). This friendly female gnome NPC is an expert in Magnimar law and helped the PCs a lot in proving their innocence. All of the players (with one having the final say) played her in court as the one doing the defence of the players' innocence.
Here is someone else who ran a court drama session (LINK). My own mechanics were as follows:
-There are three rounds of 5 real life minutes each where players can present their defence, with one player playing the lawyer while the others help as players rather than as characters in thinking of arguments. The first round starts with the opposition (a halfling lawyer named Miri), played by the GM, who presents why the PCs are found guilty. Then the players defend themselves. Then comes the second round, starting with the accuser countering the player's arguments. Then the players counter the accuser's arguments. Then comes the third round, where the accuser gives conclusive remarks. Then the players give their conclusive remarks, where their strongest arguments may be repeated.
-After the first round of the accuser, all judges find the players guilty. Every time a new argument is presented by the players (the lawyer), roll a diplomacy check using the lawyer's diplomacy skill. Other skills such as bluff or lore skills could also be used. The DC to convince judge 1 is 0, to convince judge 2 is DC 5, and so on, with a DC 60 being required to convince judge 13, which is the lord-mayor. On a success, the lowest-numbered judge who found the PCs guilty (this is the current DC of the check) is convinced of the PCs innocence. On a critical success or beating the DC by 10, the two lowest-numbered judges who found the PCs guilty is convinced. On a natural 1, or failing the DC (lowest-numbered judge who finds the PCs guilty) by 10 or more, the highest-numbered judge who finds the PCs innocent is changed to find them guilty.
-For every judge who already finds the PCs innocent, gain a +2 bonus on the check. Important: the accuser cannot get this bonus.
-Players and accuser can get further bonuses on the checks by, for example, presenting real evidence (such as the masks in Ironbriar's office, the translated journal, Sihedron runes on the PCs, etc.) or by interviewing witnesses. The lawyer can also question the PCs, in which case the PC can use the aid another action. The accuser can also question the PCs.
-After the three rounds, depending on the number of judges that were convinced of the PCs innocence, the PCs get the following punishment: 1 judge: death penalty, 2 judges: lifelong prison and 200gp, 3: banishment to the Black arrows and 40gp, 4: 20 years and 200gp, 5: 10 years and 200 gp, 6: 5 years and 200 gp, 7: 1 year and 200 gp, 8: 1 month and 150gp, 9: 1 week and 50gp, 10: 25gp and freedom if they find the Sihedron murderer, 11: 10gp and freedom if they find the Sihedron murderer, 12: freedom but asked kindly to find the Sihedron murderer, 13: freedom.
Amazing, Lawrencelot, thanks so much for these notes! Absolutely fantastic and truly appreciated.
Before I get to a potential trial. . . the PC's are currently on the lam and are about to be given hiding by the Tower Girls for a few days for a price. Anybody have any ideas of good encounters with the Tower Girls? They don't necessarily have to be combat encounters, just interesting and fun. I may make a separate post to ask about this but don't want to clog up the forums.
Thanks again, Lawrencelot, and to all others who want to chime in!
Quick note that I started a separate thread to discuss the Tower Girls question if anyone's interested in commenting, thanks.
So the PC's cast Animate Dead on Ironbriar. Why, I don't exactly know. They were able to cover his face as they exited the burning mill so that the eyewitnesses didn't see his face. That night, they had him walk into the water and told him to continue out to sea. They're not terribly experienced players and honestly believed that this was a wise solution.
What would be the penalty for using such necromantic magic on a city Justice given that they have solid proof of Ironbriar's guilt (the journal)? They're already wanted for arson.
Once the Mayor gets word that he was on the Skinsaw's list, does he intervene and excuse their vigilantism as thanks knowing that if he punishes them, it may discourage other citizens from saving his hide in the future?
Or do their crimes negate the good they've done which would steer me toward using your system for a courtroom drama, Lawrencelot?
Thanks as always for any thoughts!
So you have to balance two things here: realism and fun. Obviously fun is more important, but having NPCs react in realistic ways can also lead to that. In my campaign I definitely erred on the side of realism, which led to players sitting bored in jail for a while (though that also gave new roleplay opportunities and of course you can fastforward), but you know your players best and may choose to led things slide. Also you have to figure out how to get them back on track (in my case, after the court room drama they were asked to further investigate the murders).
If you want to go the realistic possibly less fun route, the reply of NPCs is definitely to capture the PCs, even though the Magnimar guards are probably too weak for that. If the PCs put up a fight, they can send in reinforcements such as golems or more powerful guards, or even ask gladiators or mages to capture the PCs. Especially if it is somehow known that the PCs animated Ironbriar and got rid of the evidence, and if they have been seen with the 7-pointed star. As BishopMcQ said, this would make it harder to prove their innocence: maybe use my courtroom system and add 5 or 10 to all DCs.
To get back on track, the PCs might either avoid all guards and find clues about Xanesha on their own (finding escaped cultists, or maybe Sabriyya Kalmeralm gets tired of having merchants killed and sends some minions to find Xanesha, who could use the help of the PCs. Or else, the PCs turn themselves in and try to clear their name by hiring a very good lawyer and presenting the evidence they have, or maybe pay someone to translate Ironbriar's journal which is probably enough to prove their innocence.
Cool thread! There’s a lot of good advice and ideas in here. My party did a similar thing; the wizard cast grease, forgot about it, and then fired burning hands into the greasy hallway, which I ruled started a spreading fire (I don’t know if that’s the case RAW, but it felt right).
Since the courtroom aspect has already been mostly covered, I figure I’ll suggest another avenue; you could have a private investigator (or investigators, plural) tail them going forward in the adventure. This would mean that the guard don’t get directly involved (doesn’t bog down the pacing too much) but also would provide a sense of consequence. these investigators could also be tweaked based on the party; if you think your group may want to attack them, then make them stealthy and give them many ways of escaping through the streets (plus, if they attack an investigator hired by the watch, that’s certainly a time to get the guard involved for real).
This also lets you give them a sense of time pressure and acts as a kind of red herring. Have the investigator sneak into their rooms at the inn while they’re out, and leave signs of entry (maybe stealing some minor trinket) which might spook them into thinking Aldern is still alive. It also adds the side quest of trying to prove their innocence before they get caught and locked up! Plus, they might surprise you, like trying to enlist the investigator to help them fight Xanesha and prove they are innocent.
My group didn’t end up doing it this way, but I totally would have if I had thought of it in the moment.