This is a spoiler-filled resource thread for GMs running the Agents of Edgewatch Adventure Path, specifically for the first adventure, "Devil at the Dreaming Palace."
Can I get some help interpreting this activity:
Requirement: Character is adjacent to two or more enemies;
Effect: Character makes three melee weapon Strikes, two of which must be against different enemies. These attacks count toward her multiple attack penalty, but only after all three Strikes have been made. After taking this activity, Character is flat-footed until the beginning of her next turn.
Does this mean MAP applies after the three strike rolls?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Can I get some help interpreting this activity:
** spoiler omitted **
Does this mean MAP applies after the three strike rolls?
That's the way I read it: for two actions, you get three strikes vs. at least two targets without MAP, but if you use your third action to attack, you'd do so with full MAP.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Nit pick, but kind of let down I can't share all the inventory items from the Adventure Toolbox because the Criminal Contraband page (p80) make reference to the big reveal of who the real killer is and the Reaper's Lancet description (p81) also talk about the real killer. I originally shrugged and shared the other toolboxes (i.e. Guard Gear, Nonlethal Loadout and Edgewatch Detective Archtype). It's nice lore, but makes sharing item information impossible.
Where my feathers are ruffled a bit is online databases of Pathfinder 2nd information like Archives of Nethys copy and paste the item description straight onto their websites, meaning players can potentially trip into the big twist/mystery of Book 1 when just looking up unique weapons.
Probably could have done with talking about how the sword relates to its owner in the owner's page honestly.
That said, based on a skim, the book definitely has me pretty damn thrilled to run.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Nit pick, but kind of let down I can't share all the inventory items from the Adventure Toolbox because the Criminal Contraband page (p80) make reference to the big reveal of who the real killer is and the Reaper's Lancet description (p81) also talk about the real killer. I originally shrugged and shared the other toolboxes (i.e. Guard Gear, Nonlethal Loadout and Edgewatch Detective Archtype). It's nice lore, but makes sharing item information impossible.
Where my feathers are ruffled a bit is online databases of Pathfinder 2nd information like Archives of Nethys copy and paste the item description straight onto their websites, meaning players can potentially trip into the big twist/mystery of Book 1 when just looking up unique weapons.
Probably could have done with talking about how the sword relates to its owner in the owner's page honestly.
That said, based on a skim, the book definitely has me pretty damn thrilled to run.
Forget spoilers in the item description - there's the big spoiler right in the name of the book! "Devil at the Dreaming Palace", in the very first encounter you meet a guy who runs a hotel named the "Dreaming Palace". How is any player not going to make at least some connection there?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And that is why I don't tell my players AP book names til we beat them!
"And you have completed Book One: … Devil at the Dreaming Palace!"
On that note, I was absolutely THRILLED when I looked at chapter 4 and realized the title was a reference to The Devil in the White City! Love that book, and that trainwreck of a moment in time.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Nit pick, but kind of let down I can't share all the inventory items from the Adventure Toolbox because the Criminal Contraband page (p80) make reference to the big reveal of who the real killer is and the Reaper's Lancet description (p81) also talk about the real killer. I originally shrugged and shared the other toolboxes (i.e. Guard Gear, Nonlethal Loadout and Edgewatch Detective Archtype). It's nice lore, but makes sharing item information impossible.
Where my feathers are ruffled a bit is online databases of Pathfinder 2nd information like Archives of Nethys copy and paste the item description straight onto their websites, meaning players can potentially trip into the big twist/mystery of Book 1 when just looking up unique weapons.
Probably could have done with talking about how the sword relates to its owner in the owner's page honestly.
That said, based on a skim, the book definitely has me pretty damn thrilled to run.
The Reaper's Lancet is the Killer's unique weapon, why would you share it with your player's beforehand?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
....The Reaper's Lancet is the Killer's unique weapon, why would you share it with your player's beforehand?
For me, the annoyance is less that I want to share it, and more that if they stumble across it on the Nethys just browsing they'll just know the big bad's whole deal and ruin the mystery solving.
I wish they wouldn't put identifying information like that in the item description, specially in this case when one of the players REALLY LOVES the weapon type here and would be interested in reading about a unique one just for fun.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Reaper's Lancet is the Killer's unique weapon, why would you share it with your player's beforehand?
Because it's on the same page as non-unique items I would like to share, and like GayBirdGM mentioned I'm significantly more concerned that the spoiler is roaming free on AoN and other similar websites in a form that it's easy to trip on if you're gawking at unique weapons.
|
I have a technical question regarding the AP! Certain NPC officers in the sidebar "Faces of Edgewatch" are written as being "human officer" and "dwarf senior officer". I could not find a statblock for either of these, nor the "Investigator" NPC, though I suspect she is using the player class so perhaps I should expect to build her myself.
Am I missing something here?
|
|
It's pretty common for GMs to share toolbox pages with their players: new spells, items and such.
Asking players not to look in the rulebooks (and online references) might work for other games, but this is Pathfinder.
Pretty sure that previous instance also drew heavy flak.
If you share the whole page from the book itself that’s on you.
And I didn’t say not to look in the Rulebooks anywhere, for AON I suggested asking them not to look for unique/specific weapons.
If it did it must have been an odd definition of “heavy” cause they’ve had items like these in most of the APs I’m pretty sure.
This isn’t a description issue, it’s GMs just handing the pages to the players without curating it, or not trusting them.
I have a technical question regarding the AP! Certain NPC officers in the sidebar "Faces of Edgewatch" are written as being "human officer" and "dwarf senior officer". I could not find a statblock for either of these, nor the "Investigator" NPC, though I suspect she is using the player class so perhaps I should expect to build her myself.
Am I missing something here?
Easiest is just to use some of the NPC statblocks from the gamemastery guide. Guard (CR1), Watch Officer (CR3), and Captain of the Guard (CR6) should give a solid stating point. There are rules there for adding ancestry adjustments, for the dwarf, as well.
I think they've left out the statblocks, because they don't expect you to get into fights with your fellow guards. Optimistic of the authors, I know.
|
|
Please don't imply a lack of trust, that's so disappointingly low.
I brought up lack of trust in response to your post since it seemed relevant to the current discussion, not against anyone in particular.
Ask your players not to look for specific/unique weapons, that's all you can do, ask. You can't force them not to, just the same if they have a copy of the adventure as well, ask them not to read ahead. If players go looking for spoilers they're gonna find some.
If you don't trust your players there's not really anything anyone can do, Paizo or otherwise.
I keep looking, but I still can't figure out how treasure is supposed to work in this book. I see a couple references to fines, and getting treasure from a senseless monster. Is there a mechanic around looting I'm missing?
On page 5:
The guards’ only actual means of earning liquid cash is by requisitioning possessions and money from any criminals they catch breaking major laws—no trial required. All findings are to be meticulously catalogued so as to prevent abuse of power, and any confiscated goods with identifiable owners must be returned.
Which I think is supposed to mean that the PCs can take the stuff of the people they arrest.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I keep looking, but I still can't figure out how treasure is supposed to work in this book. I see a couple references to fines, and getting treasure from a senseless monster. Is there a mechanic around looting I'm missing?On page 5:
The guards’ only actual means of earning liquid cash is by requisitioning possessions and money from any criminals they catch breaking major laws—no trial required. All findings are to be meticulously catalogued so as to prevent abuse of power, and any confiscated goods with identifiable owners must be returned.Which I think is supposed to mean that the PCs can take the stuff of the people they arrest.
The Player's Guide sidebar on Playing Without Law Enforcement has a method for treasure "Instead of turning over seized evidence to the precinct for bounty rewards," which doesn't really read to me the same as "requisitioning money and possessions." As Kasoh says, either way is kind of uncomfortable.
I get that Paizo needs some way for the party to keep up with WBL that doesn't break verisimilitude of what a member of the city guard should be paid, but I don't know that they've hit on something tremendously successful. I wonder if there's a way to upgrade equipment as they get promoted: they turn in their old equipment in exchange for better (or get new runes or whatever) with all of it technically being the property of the city rather than their own personal equipment.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In the adventures description of how the Edgewatch was set up, they mention that it's not really funded and paid for by the city, instead set up more like a 'Freebooters Charter'. So officially, the watch has been given an official license to claim treasures from lawbreakers, in lieu of a more regular paycheck.
Fortunately, about half the time the adventure specifies that "the grateful citizens give the guard the treasure, as thanks for their help". It's that other half, and it's lack of clear rules for 'fines', that's a bit sticky
If I run this, I'd probably deal with treasure through a combination of better gear provided by Headquarters, contributions from grateful festival organizers, and letting the PCs' equipment level up as they advance. Definitely no looting bodies or pocketing arbitrary fines (or citizens slipping purses of gold into the officers' pockets).
Maybe add a supply officer NPC to the Edgewatch station who issues higher-level equipment as the PCs become authorized for it -- but only if they fill out the proper forms in triplicate, of course.
As for the new gear, it's a bit disappointing the nightstick is such a poor weapon. And I'm definitely not going to be using the blindpepper bomb and tube in my game, given the real-world issues around the casual overuse of tear gas and pepper spray. Maybe some sort of sleep/knockout gas alchemical weapon would be a better alternative?
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
When reading through this module, I can clearly see that they have taken a heavy inspiration from 'Devil in the White City'. While I'm not against that, I'm worried that players who know the reference material would get the serial killer immediately and thus make the adventure much more dull.
What I'm especially worried about is in the beginning where the serial killer introduces himself as the owner of an inn apropos of nothing. I understand the scene is meant to introduce him so the eventual reveal is not out of left field and to also provide a nice callback later with the flayed skins but is there a way to... obfuscate the fact that this guy will be the villain?
Any thoughts? One idea I had was by perhaps having the assistant be the one who does the introduction or maybe introducing multiple 'potential suspects' at a table drinking with each other.
|
|
The trust might be there in your group, it is in mine, not in asking my players not to read stuff, but in keeping player knowledge and character knowledge separate.
But it might not be, as is a possible case for concerns. I hope everyone here does trust their players.
It does have to do with trust though, either in asking players not to read certain parts or in keeping player knowledge and character knowledge separate.
As for Archives of Nethys they copy everything as is, they're not allowed to alter anything. I'm fine with unique items having their importance in their description, if you don't want to be spoiled, don't go wildly looking at unique items in AoN.
|
|
When reading through this module, I can clearly see that they have taken a heavy inspiration from 'Devil in the White City'. While I'm not against that, I'm worried that players who know the reference material would get the serial killer immediately and thus make the adventure much more dull.
What I'm especially worried about is in the beginning where the serial killer introduces himself as the owner of an inn apropos of nothing. I understand the scene is meant to introduce him so the eventual reveal is not out of left field and to also provide a nice callback later with the flayed skins but is there a way to... obfuscate the fact that this guy will be the villain?
Any thoughts? One idea I had was by perhaps having the assistant be the one who does the introduction or maybe introducing multiple 'potential suspects' at a table drinking with each other.
Do not use a Vincent Price voice for him.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Any thoughts? One idea I had was by perhaps having the assistant be the one who does the introduction or maybe introducing multiple 'potential suspects' at a table drinking with each other.
I'd probably just cut down his initial speech considerably. The PCs are there to deal with an ongoing bar brawl, they don't have time to stand around listening to this guy chatter away. At the very least, don't have him mention his occupation out of nowhere.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Best way to do it is make him usable to the players, in my experience. Given that his name is Pratchett, it's possible their minds go to thinking he'll be an homage to Terry. But if you find a way to make him truly charm and ingratiate his way into the party's good graces, that should help!
If there's anything my players hate more than arrogance or condescension, it's uselessness. And as written he verges on all three, which means there would be trouble!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My plan, if the players get suspious of him, is to try and steer their expectations into thinking he'll be a victim later, that they'll have to rescue/work for. Let them visit the hotel run by the guy (but it's too pricey for them to stay at!), mention how construction has unearthed things (like the skeletons in the first chapter), make them expect that perhaps his hotel repairs have something sinister breaking into his basement.
Basically, paint him as a quest giving NPC rather then a the future Villian.
My plan, if the players get suspious of him, is to try and steer their expectations into thinking he'll be a victim later, that they'll have to rescue/work for. Let them visit the hotel run by the guy (but it's too pricey for them to stay at!), mention how construction has unearthed things (like the skeletons in the first chapter), make them expect that perhaps his hotel repairs have something sinister breaking into his basement.
Basically, paint him as a quest giving NPC rather then a the future Villian.
That is an amazing idea, and I may very well steal that from you!
I was worried about him, he DOES unfortunately have that punchable face in one art, and definite murder eyes in the other. Playing him up as someone that will need help will definitely distract my players. They LOVE helping poor, innocent NPCs and collecting them as friends.
Creative Director
|
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
There's guidelines for how to adjust encounters for smaller (or larger) parties in the Core Rulebook: page 489. For a 3 person group, use of the Weak adjustment is a great start for this, of course.
You can also adjust encounters on the fly as you play. If it looks like the encounter is too tough, maybe instead of the monster having 30 hit points remaining, it has just enough so that however much damage the next hit does, that hit will take it out. The players won't know that you adjusted its hit points, but instead will have a great experience of "whew, that was close; we barely made it but for that lucky final shot!" And then take your observations of that fight and adjust going forward so you don't have to keep doing this sort of thing.
There's also always the option of having a companion NPC tag along with the party, a character you control as the GM. I did this a LOT back in the day when my game group was sometimes comprised of only one player (my younger sister); I'd let her play her character and build up other NPCs to travel with her and play them along side her exploration. It was a great way to build up some character stories along the way rather than just have the PCs chat with an NPC once and never again.
We actually played through the entire Dragonlance series back in the day like this, with my sister playing one PC and me running the other 7 in the group (with her helping to decide their actions by "giving orders" or the like as needed). It was a lot of fun!
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
PF2 tends to be a bit less forgiving than PF1 in terms of success, and action economy matters a lot.
If I were running a game for only three players I'd either give them a meaningful power up in some way, or give them an NPC tagalong (using the PCs rules) to help them out.
Someone solid and helpful in a fight but maybe not great at the whole 'investigating' thing seems pretty workable for this AP in particular, since that avoids stealing the spotlight, and so it's probably what I'd do.
EDIT: Sneaky ninja T-Rexes. Ah well, at least I agree with him for the most part.
Does anyone have any suggestions for maps or digital resources I could use for the layout of Edgewatch Station?
Check out the Community Created Content for this adventure path
I'm not going to crack open the book more than I already have since I'm going to play it (sadly already know about Pratchett but that's my fault) - did James Sutter's apology end up being about something specific, or was it just the general cop stuff?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It seems to be mostly the general cop stuff. Nothing stood out as particularly objectionable, it's a pretty standard fare of fighting evil.