Hi everyone, hi Paizo,
I was quite excited whith the release of the Toxicologist as I love poisoning my teammates weapons and even if I won't switch my Chirurgeon's Research Field I'll definitely add some of the new feats (Pinpoint Poisoner, Sticky Poison) to my build. But I'm a bit concerned about one issue: There are nearly no high level Injury Poisons. For Toxicologist, it's not that big of an issue as they use their class DC as Poison DC (even if it greatly reduces their choice of poison). But for non Toxicologist, it means that they have to forget about poisons at some point.
Hence my question: Do you plan on releasing a good bunch of high level Injury Poison (Common rarity for them to be accessible in PFS) or do I have to consider the current number of them as final or close to?
This question went unnoticed in the middle of all the APG release joy. I ask it a last time, hoping someone at Paizo sees it and wants to answer to it.
Maybe it's be best for you to define what you mean be "high level" and "a good bunch" so everyone is on the same page. What would you like to see?
There are high level injury poisons as is, so obviously we will get more as time goes on.
Obviously it won't be a huge priority. I sincerely doubt they will bother responding to you with anything clearer than this though, as that is their general policy when talking about unannounced content/options.
But outside of that non toxicologist alchemists can do decently with potent poisoner / powerful alchemy. The poisoner archetype also lets you apply flatfooted to their initial save.
Maybe it's be best for you to define what you mean be "high level" and "a good bunch" so everyone is on the same page. What would you like to see?
After level 8, Injury Poisons gets discontinued. There is just one at level 10, 13 and 16 (in Common rarity).
And if you take into account the Toxicologist ability to mix 2 poisons they acquire at level 13, the combinations are quite obvious as there are too few poisons to mix: You have one valid combination at levels 14, 16 and 19. So, for a Toxicologist, you have 6 Injury poisons and for non Toxicologists only 3 on the span of 12 levels. I think it's really few considering that you have one at each and every level from level 1 to 8.Obviously it won't be a huge priority. I sincerely doubt they will bother responding to you with anything clearer than this though, as that is their general policy when talking about unannounced content/options.
Well, it's worth a try.
But outside of that non toxicologist alchemists can do decently with potent poisoner / powerful alchemy.
Yes, obviously, you can use poisons even if you don't get enough. But I won't say that having the choice between 3 poisons allows you to do "decently". You do "as best as you can" considering the circumstances. You can compensate the save DC (at all levels but 9 and 20) but you can't compensate the lack of power and choice.
Greater Field Discovery: "The two poisons can be up to six levels lower than your level, and you can't use the poisons made without spending a batch of infused reagents via perpetual infusions" [APG]
Note the part I bolded. Now read : Perpetual Perfection [Level 17]
"Choose two common 11th-level or lower alchemical poisons." You are capped at 11 for Perpetuals and you have to use those for Greater Field Discovery, so it "high level" doesn't really interact with your mixing ability as 12th+ are never mixed.
As to "one valid combination", that's part and parcel with the Greater Field Discovery as you MUST use perpetual infusions: you only ever have two common 1st-level alchemical poisons, two common 5th-level or lower alchemical poisons and two common 11th-level or lower alchemical poisons you can use with it: 6 poisons total are all there ever is for combinations and the max is 11th level.
As for non-Toxicologists, they aren't limited to common poisons so they have more options in play so if you're playing a person that wants uncommon poisons, PFS might not be the way to go. If you can get to play a witch with the spirit object hex, adding contact poison to it opens up more poisons you'd normally not used on a 'weapon'.
Greater Field Discovery: "The two poisons can be up to six levels lower than your level, and you can't use the poisons made without spending a batch of infused reagents via perpetual infusions" [APG]
Note the part I bolded. Now read : Perpetual Perfection [Level 17]
"Choose two common 11th-level or lower alchemical poisons." You are capped at 11 for Perpetuals and you have to use those for Greater Field Discovery, so it "high level" doesn't really interact with your mixing ability as 12th+ are never mixed.As to "one valid combination", that's part and parcel with the Greater Field Discovery as you MUST use perpetual infusions: you only ever have two common 1st-level alchemical poisons, two common 5th-level or lower alchemical poisons and two common 11th-level or lower alchemical poisons you can use with it: 6 poisons total are all there ever is for combinations and the max is 11th level.
You can't use Perpetual Infusions to use Greater Field Discovery. So, I don't follow you.
As for non-Toxicologists, they aren't limited to common poisons so they have more options in play so if you're playing a person that wants uncommon poisons, PFS might not be the way to go. If you can get to play a witch with the spirit object hex, adding contact poison to it opens up more poisons you'd normally not used on a 'weapon'.
Uncommon and Rare poisons are... well, not a given. Especially when you need a lot of them. And I'm playing PFS, so not for me.
And you can't use Contact Poison during combat because they all have a one minute onset.The only poisons you can use during combat are Injury poisons and Inhaled poisons. And Inhaled poisons poison you when you release them...
Injury poisons are the poisons you'll use 90%+ of the time.
You can't use Perpetual Infusions to use Greater Field Discovery. So, I don't follow you.
No, its the opposite: "you can't use the poisons made without spending a batch of infused reagents via perpetual infusions". They used a double negative: you can't use poisons not made with perpetual infusions. A better way to say it is "you must use poisons made with Perpetual Infusions" but, as with lots of other things with the class, they made things more difficult than they needed to...
The only poisons you can use during combat are Injury poisons and Inhaled poisons.
Not so. "A contact poison is activated by applying it to an item or directly onto a living creature’s skin." So you can apply it to an item. A witch can move said item over to a creature and have the item attack it. As the item isn't a creature, the first creature that touched the item is the creature attacked. It's also possible to apply it to a trap/snare.
So it's not easy but it can be done. The main problem is the onset time for them but if you're clever you can manage it. Not sure it's worth it but, honestly, I ask that of poisons in general, especially for a non-alchemist/toxicologist.
No, its the opposite: "you can't use the poisons made without spending a batch of infused reagents via perpetual infusions". They used a double negative: you can't use poisons not made with perpetual infusions. A better way to say it is "you must use poisons made with Perpetual Infusions" but, as with lots of other things with the class, they made things more difficult than they needed to...
We don't read it the same way.
Poisons made without spending a batch of infused reagents via perpetual infusions are poisons made (without spending a batch of infused reagents) via perpetual infusions.You can't use those. You can't use poisons made via perpetual infusions.
I agree that it could be made more clear...
So it's not easy but it can be done. The main problem is the onset time for them but if you're clever you can manage it.
That's what I say, you can't use them in combat, because 10-round combats is something I've rarely seen.
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You can't use Perpetual Infusions to use Greater Field Discovery. So, I don't follow you.No, its the opposite: "you can't use the poisons made without spending a batch of infused reagents via perpetual infusions". They used a double negative: you can't use poisons not made with perpetual infusions. A better way to say it is "you must use poisons made with Perpetual Infusions" but, as with lots of other things with the class, they made things more difficult than they needed to...
No, you are reading this wrong. I don't know how to properly diagram a sentence, but it's this:
"You can't use the poisons made (without spending a batch of infused reagents) via perpetual infusions"
Where the bolded part is a single... thing, describing what you "can't use". In other words, "Poisons that spent no batches of infused reagents to make (via perpetual infusions) can't be used."
The other interpretation doesn't make sense, if you think about it: If you can't use the poisons without "spending a batch of infused reagents via perpetual infusions", then you couldn't use any poisons at all because perpetual infusions doesn't cost a batch of infused reagents.
The whole without spending a batch of infused reagents part of that is I think future proofing in case there is some other way to make something without a reagent. But it is pretty clear that the intent for now is you can't use poisons made via perpetual infusions. The without a batch of infused ingredients in that is just redundant as that is baked into perpetual infusions.