Gear Array Forms - a completely theoretical analysis


Nanocyte Class


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I obviously haven't played with the nanocyte yet, but I've been trying to make characters.

Yeah, this is weird and broken.

1. You get (or change) your forms at level-up. You can invest in things of level+1, but your forms will ALWAYS be based on your investment made the previous level. This means that you essentially will never be able to invest a level+1 weapon unless your Santa Claus GM gives you something Level+2 to eat (any gear that nice was probably intended to be used in the scenario). Without being able to "save" our form choices for later, or have some way to change them on the fly, you'll always be lagging.

2. You have to wait until level 5 to start updating your forms. Essentially you're mostly stuck with your level 1 stuff bought with your starting credits until then, and even after that it's pretty slow going.

3. Unintended party consequences. The nanocyte is not going to be a popular PC, because they are gluttonous gluttons ever hungering for higher value items. This affects other party members because it cuts into loot amounts (a little less so, because Starfinder stuff only sells for 10%, but that argument will definitely be made to allow nanocytes to get all the best drops).

4. Unintended plot consequences. "Whoops I ate the priceless tech prototype we were intended to guard. It's harder to ask for permission than forgiveness." You can't "spit it out." As far as I can tell, once you eat something, it's gone.

5. You can absorb something you can't use. That Level+5 wave motion cannon sure provides a lot of nanites, but even though you absorbed it, you can't use it. Kinda breaks immersion.

6. This is just for Society, but tracking investments between sessions is essentially impossible. We can't keep treasure that we don't buy from a chronicle sheet or another legitimate source, so I don't see why we'd be able to keep our investment from table to table if we devour items found in the adventure. Starfinder Society would just make us vomit out the nanites with ipecac or something.

WHAT TO DO?

Well, if we want this to be fair to the nanocyte's party and true to the spirit of the game, we should find some way to standardize what can be invested, and when.

1. We have numbers in the core book about wealth by level, and approximately how much of that wealth should be spent on weapons, armor, the whole deal. Add a new column on the level table to designate the maximum value of the nanocyte's investment.

1a. If you still want to make them eat gear to keep them on the WBL treadmill, that's fine, but allow them to hoover up little stuff until they hit the current level maximum credits. That way, you don't steal the good gear from the rest of the party. Hard to track in Society, though...probably just dump UPBs in there.

1b. Alternatively, divorce the investment from gobbling stuff in-game entirely; make it a static number based on level, but modified by Knacks, Faculties, perhaps feats, etc. You can still absorb items, but it will be for other reasons, such as to swap a trait of one of your forms temporarily (damage type, crit effect, weapon trait, fusion, etc.) or perhaps to heal. This is probably the better choice for Starfinder Society.

1c. Limit the level of the item that's absorbed, but that item fills your form slot. So if you absorb a laser rifle, you now have a laser rifle in your major forms. If you absorb something else but don't have an open slot, you have to lose something. Again, hard to track in Society. It is, however, very much the kind of thing you'd see in a movie.

2. Allow PCs to benefit from their new level with regard to investments before locking in their forms.

2a. Allow newly-earned forms to be chosen on the fly, but make them locked in once selected. If you free up a slot after gaining a level, you can fill it later.

2b. Make the PC choose forms at the beginning of the day like an old-school wizard choosing spells.

3. Allow changing of forms earlier; maybe at any level where you don't get a new form. The types of items you can get are limited enough as it is (cybernetic augmentations are especially sparse). Maybe allow a knack that lets you spend a surge and an RP to change forms on the fly.


I came to many of the same conclusions and, in a post I wrote and posted while this was posted, I suggested making it so that instead of setting Nanite Investment at the last items broken down, Nanite Investment is cumulative. This wouldn't fix the severe lag in how long it takes to update your forms, but it would fix the problem of not having a high enough investment at level-up as well as the loot distribution problem (Nanocyte just adds their share to their investment instead of grabbing the most expensive piece).

While I have no experience with Society, Gear Array is a class feature, not actual equipment, so it seems like you'd just record what your Investment is on your sheet and it would carry over between sessions.

EDIT: Just thought of a possible fix to the problem of the lag in upgrading forms, start allowing the replacing/updating forms when at level 3 (or 4 if 3 is too early). That should allow the Nanocyte to keep more of their forms at decent levels.


rabidradioactiveraccoons wrote:


While I have no experience with Society, Gear Array is a class feature, not actual equipment, so it seems like you'd just record what your Investment is on your sheet and it would carry over between sessions.

I saw your post, yeah. I think you'd have to somehow limit the maximum investment per level, or else you would just absorb 247 azimuth laser pistols that you found lying on the ground and always have an investment for the best item at your new level.

As for Society, we're not allowed to keep anything we find between sessions; it just gets put on a list of things we can buy with our standard pay. So it doesn't make sense to be able to keep investments made with loot found during an adventure.


Maximum investment per level makes sense and eating anything that costs less than your current investment would have to have diminishing returns, like only its sell value being added, but a cumulative investment value would solve a lot of the problems you listed.

Also, concerning Society, are other classes prevented from carrying over class features? Because your Gear Array is a class feature, not treasure. Your total investment is gained from eating treasure, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still a class feature. Nanocyte is unique in that I can't think of any other classes that can invest treasure directly into themselves but this seems more like a rules patch for Society than it does for the Nanocyte.


rabidradioactiveraccoons wrote:
Maximum investment per level makes sense and eating anything that costs less than your current investment would have to have diminishing returns, like only its sell value being added, but a cumulative investment value would solve a lot of the problems you listed.

Keeping track of what the most expensive item you ate, and replacing it when you eat something better, in contrast to the stuff only giving 10%, sounds like a bookkeeping nightmare.

Quote:
Also, concerning Society, are other classes prevented from carrying over class features? Because your Gear Array is a class feature, not treasure. Your total investment is gained from eating treasure, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still a class feature. Nanocyte is unique in that I can't think of any other classes that can invest treasure directly into themselves but this seems more like a rules patch for Society than it does for the Nanocyte.

No other class has a class feature that directly costs credits. The soldier can't keep the best rifle he found just because his class is based on shooting rifles.

Essentially this would come down to having to pay money from your per-adventure income into the investment; anything else and it's just another way to keep treasure between scenarios, which is expressly forbidden.


Dracomicron wrote:
rabidradioactiveraccoons wrote:
Maximum investment per level makes sense and eating anything that costs less than your current investment would have to have diminishing returns, like only its sell value being added, but a cumulative investment value would solve a lot of the problems you listed.
Keeping track of what the most expensive item you ate, and replacing it when you eat something better, in contrast to the stuff only giving 10%, sounds like a bookkeeping nightmare.

No more of a nightmare than keeping track of your normal credits.

Quote:
Quote:
Also, concerning Society, are other classes prevented from carrying over class features? Because your Gear Array is a class feature, not treasure. Your total investment is gained from eating treasure, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still a class feature. Nanocyte is unique in that I can't think of any other classes that can invest treasure directly into themselves but this seems more like a rules patch for Society than it does for the Nanocyte.

No other class has a class feature that directly costs credits. The soldier can't keep the best rifle he found just because his class is based on shooting rifles.

Essentially this would come down to having to pay money from your per-adventure income into the investment; anything else and it's just another way to keep treasure between scenarios, which is expressly forbidden.

Hence why I said this seems more like a rules patch for the Society than it does for the Nanocyte. The class is an exception to other classes in how it handles treasure, which means that Society would have to come down with a ruling/fix rather than a fix to the Nanocyte.


The variety of weapon damage outputs on those lower levels is really slim, chances are you will not need to change anything because the extra one you pick up at level three, and you are always welcome to use the weapons you pick up adventuring or buy...

Originally when i was reading the ability, I read it as breaking down equipment and adding an additional 10% to make a cumulative resource pot. You would be growing it little by little each time you find new equipment to break down.

Perhaps you could run it on a upb tier by the level of equipment used. All level 1 used sets your upb at 400, level 2 is 800, etc. the numbers are arbitrary, and you need a new piece of equipment each time you change one of your forms. This way, you sacrifice a weapon at third level, fifth, and every time you are given a new major or update forms


rabidradioactiveraccoons wrote:

Hence why I said this seems more like a rules patch for the Society than it does for the Nanocyte. The class is an exception to other classes in how it handles treasure, which means that Society would have to come down with a ruling/fix rather than a fix to the Nanocyte.

That's an argument for not allowing nanocytes at all. Treasure is a sticky subject in society play; you don't want someone playing a particular class just because they get to keep more effective loot.


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So, having read the Nanocyte rules and Gear Array. . . honestly, my inclination is to say "The ability doesn't need all the limits it has". As things stand, it has both an Item Level limit, and a Nanite Investment limit. Both of which do similar things: keeping the character from having too powerful of nano-gear. Except the Item Level requirement is easy and intuitive, while the Nanite Investment rule is a mess of book-keeping. My response? Ditch the Nanite Investment rule entirely. The PC needs to meet the level limit to choose something for their Gear Array, and that is that.

Why this is not unbalanced? Yes, it effectively lets the character choose gear ( read: weapons ) without paying for them. However, this is not unique to the Nanocyte, both the Solarian and Vanguard effectively get "weapons" as part of their class, too. The Nanocyte gets to choose more options, but they also have to suffer more *tradeoffs* for it- using the Gear Array to gain that 'free' weapon means not using a Sheath or Cloud, both of which also have numerous valuable uses. At worst, a strictly Gear-focused Nanocyte needs to spend less on weapons than other classes, but only if they sacrifice other character options in the process. Compare this to, say, a Solarian, who does not need to forgo using their solar and gravity powers in order to conjure their Solar Weapon.


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Metaphysician wrote:

So, having read the Nanocyte rules and Gear Array. . . honestly, my inclination is to say "The ability doesn't need all the limits it has". As things stand, it has both an Item Level limit, and a Nanite Investment limit. Both of which do similar things: keeping the character from having too powerful of nano-gear. Except the Item Level requirement is easy and intuitive, while the Nanite Investment rule is a mess of book-keeping. My response? Ditch the Nanite Investment rule entirely. The PC needs to meet the level limit to choose something for their Gear Array, and that is that.

Why this is not unbalanced? Yes, it effectively lets the character choose gear ( read: weapons ) without paying for them. However, this is not unique to the Nanocyte, both the Solarian and Vanguard effectively get "weapons" as part of their class, too. The Nanocyte gets to choose more options, but they also have to suffer more *tradeoffs* for it- using the Gear Array to gain that 'free' weapon means not using a Sheath or Cloud, both of which also have numerous valuable uses. At worst, a strictly Gear-focused Nanocyte needs to spend less on weapons than other classes, but only if they sacrifice other character options in the process. Compare this to, say, a Solarian, who does not need to forgo using their solar and gravity powers in order to conjure their Solar Weapon.

I can't say I disagree with any of this. The investment mechanics are overly complicated and too enamored of the "destroying loot" mechanic, which I feel can be handled in a better way.

1. You have a list of level-appropriate things you can create, but you can also absorb a weapon and use it with various gear array bonuses. Like, you absorb a laser rifle, but one of your gear array powers lets you use it as a Blast weapon. If you find a better weapon, you can plot it out of your array and the party can sell it or whatever.

2. You still destroy gear, but you do it for bonuses or versatility. Like, you're fighting something resistant to your Sonic Humdinger; you pull out an azimuth laser pistol, absorb it into your Gear Array, and suddenly your Sonic Humdinger is a Laser Humdinger for the rest of the combat. Or absorb a plasma pistol with the Line quality to gain that trait for awhile.


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Dracomicron wrote:
Metaphysician wrote:

So, having read the Nanocyte rules and Gear Array. . . honestly, my inclination is to say "The ability doesn't need all the limits it has". As things stand, it has both an Item Level limit, and a Nanite Investment limit. Both of which do similar things: keeping the character from having too powerful of nano-gear. Except the Item Level requirement is easy and intuitive, while the Nanite Investment rule is a mess of book-keeping. My response? Ditch the Nanite Investment rule entirely. The PC needs to meet the level limit to choose something for their Gear Array, and that is that.

Why this is not unbalanced? Yes, it effectively lets the character choose gear ( read: weapons ) without paying for them. However, this is not unique to the Nanocyte, both the Solarian and Vanguard effectively get "weapons" as part of their class, too. The Nanocyte gets to choose more options, but they also have to suffer more *tradeoffs* for it- using the Gear Array to gain that 'free' weapon means not using a Sheath or Cloud, both of which also have numerous valuable uses. At worst, a strictly Gear-focused Nanocyte needs to spend less on weapons than other classes, but only if they sacrifice other character options in the process. Compare this to, say, a Solarian, who does not need to forgo using their solar and gravity powers in order to conjure their Solar Weapon.

I can't say I disagree with any of this. The investment mechanics are overly complicated and too enamored of the "destroying loot" mechanic, which I feel can be handled in a better way.

1. You have a list of level-appropriate things you can create, but you can also absorb a weapon and use it with various gear array bonuses. Like, you absorb a laser rifle, but one of your gear array powers lets you use it as a Blast weapon. If you find a better weapon, you can plot it out of your array and the party can sell it or whatever.

2. You still destroy gear, but you do it for bonuses or versatility. Like, you're fighting...

I lean to the first one, myself, as either an intrinsic aspect of the Gear Array or as a knack. Basically, you have one "slot" you can fill with a weapon, letting you store it in the nanocloud and benefit from Gear Array buffs, but you supply the weapon as normal ( and can take it out as normal ). Permanently destroying gear for temporary bonuses seems iffier. Even if its mechanically simple, it still creates party economy issues.


I don't really like permanently destroying gear, but there does come a time in Starfinder when the value of selling old stuff is debatable, and it might be interesting to get some other use out of it (for example, mechanics can Overload Weapon to turn their old azimuth laser pistols into grenades).

I can see the value in converting low-level gear into a temporary buff.

I can't, however, see actively wanting to destroy the fancy Doomcicle Frosty Cone Cannon we just found just because it has a marginally higher price tag than my last lunch.


The main value of accumulated low level laser pistols, IMO, is to fill a crate in the back of your ship for when you need to play Seven Samurai. Sure, those local colonists/whatever may be untrained and cowardly, but at least now you can arm them and get them to shoot in the general direction of the pirates/robots/bugs/etc. ;)


Just rolled a level 1 nanocyte, focused on ranged attacks (obliteration faculty).

If I got the whole gear array correctly, he's packing 2,330 credits worth of stuff (I don't see the gear array getting out of this playtest without some severe changes). It seems like it'll fizzle out as he levels up, looking at the forms in the class table.

Right now, planning for third level I can see too scenarios, while on level 2: consuming the most expensive level 3 gear I can find right before leveling up; buying and consuming the most expensive level 3 gear possible right before leveling up. Ideally I'd consume a level 4 gear just as I level up, so I could choose a new level 4 major form, but the rules seem to prevent that.

Not so sure if it's worth it, though. If he saves enough money, a level 3 character can just buy a level 5 weapon. Obliteration seems the more compatible faculty with a ranged build, but I don't think the advantages are enough to offset having to use weapons with the same level of the character only.


The Ragi wrote:

Just rolled a level 1 nanocyte, focused on ranged attacks (obliteration faculty).

If I got the whole gear array correctly, he's packing 2,330 credits worth of stuff (I don't see the gear array getting out of this playtest without some severe changes). It seems like it'll fizzle out as he levels up, looking at the forms in the class table.

Right now, planning for third level I can see too scenarios, while on level 2: consuming the most expensive level 3 gear I can find right before leveling up; buying and consuming the most expensive level 3 gear possible right before leveling up. Ideally I'd consume a level 4 gear just as I level up, so I could choose a new level 4 major form, but the rules seem to prevent that.

Not so sure if it's worth it, though. If he saves enough money, a level 3 character can just buy a level 5 weapon. Obliteration seems the more compatible faculty with a ranged build, but I don't think the advantages are enough to offset having to use weapons with the same level of the character only.

You might be able to buy a level 5 weapon, but you're still limited to level+1 (the level before) in what you can absorb. You don't get a new form at level 4, and can't start swapping until level 5, so...

I was only able to get level 3 weapons in a level 4 nanocyte's gear array, just from how credit costs on weapons scale in Starfinder. "Can make level+1 items" is somewhat meaningless when you only get new forms every few levels, and gear costs scale upward so dramatically that it is a second effective level cap. Nobody I've talked to at GenCon who has monkeyed with nanocytes has felt that Gear Array is worth the hassle of the paperwork.

I'm leaning towards removing the investment entirely. Just have a chart like a spellcasting class, showing how many forms of what levels they can have, or retool it so that you can absorb a certain number of specific items and keep them, effectively weightless and immune to sunder, until brought back out with the gear array. Have knacks and faculties that improve the effectiveness of the absorbed items so you have a reason to absorb items instead of just using regular gear. Boom, done. Keeps the versatility, maintains the loot treadmill, and, heck, we can say that they can spit out the gear intact when they want to change forms, so the party can either use or sell it.

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