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Double Tap tells us that using the feat "expends ammunition equal to two attack rolls, and if you cannot expend that ammunition, you cannot use this ability". The Solarion's Solar Flare just "functions as a one-handed uncategorized small arm".
I realize that the damage bonus from the feat is irrelevant, because Solarions already apply their full Specialization bonus with Solar Flare; it's the +1 on attack rolls I'm interested in (for when I have nothing better to do than a single attack).
So can I expend double of zero for the attack bonus? Or since I don't use ammunition, I can't use the feat at all?
You don't use ammunition, so you can't use the feat at all.
You don't use ammunition, so you can't use the feat at all.
I think that line is there because you need to fire two shots to make.. well.. doubletap work and it won't work with just one bullet. It would work with two pew pew lasers though
Since you already deal your level in damage through specialization, this is a feat to gain.. +1 to attack with a standard action?
You don't use ammunition, so you can't use the feat at all.I think that line is there because you need to fire two shots to make.. well.. doubletap work and it won't work with just one bullet. It would work with two pew pew lasers though
Since you already deal your level in damage through specialization, this is a feat to gain.. +1 to attack with a standard action?
I agree that it's not imbalanced, but I still think your weapon needs actual ammo to use the feat.
I'd let it go when GMing, but I don't think it's legal.
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Yeah the "you need to pay double of zero" is what trips me up. I can pay it just as easily as I pay single increments of zero. But if I'm required to pay double of zero... Then I begin to question the ability to do so.
I already have a Boon that lessens my full attack penalty by 1, so if this worked, I wouldn't have to modify my spreadsheet that much. He already has Weapon Focus. Oh well.
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I also think since the solar flare doesn't use ammo you can't use the feat, but spending a feat on weapon focus and then another on double tap just to get an extra +1 to attack rolls....I don't think it's going to really cause problems if it was allowed to work.
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I mean, I feel like this debate is a bit on the pedantic side.
On the one hand you can view the Solar Flare as being a weapon that does not use ammo, on the other you can view the Solar Flare as being a weapon with an infinite charge battery. It's worth noting that the Solar Flare does not make any mention of ammunition one way or another.
Thematically you're performing a 'double tap' or two shots in rapid succession grouped close together on the target. That is definitely something you can do with a Solar Flare.
As far as I'm concerned, there's no rule conflict.
Yes, I agree. One of those situations where I wanted to check consensus before finalizing my decision for Society.
If you're asking for a Starfinder Society game you should really just ask a Venture Captain or GM to see what their ruling would be and base your character on that.
Well, for the last 4-5 months I've only been able to game online, so that's not really feasible.
I mean, do you not have email or reliable internet?
It seems unlikely, since you're here.
Go the Starfinder Society subforum and post your question and ask to get in contact with a venture captain for your area so you can get the question resolved.
SFS (and organized play in general) often more quickly makes rulings about unclear interactions than FAQs are written.
If you meant that you've only been playing non-SFS online, then ask the GM for their ruling and move along.
In my personal experience if something seems unclear I just assume it doesn't work so I'm not disappointed, until there is clarification otherwise.
There is no special SFS ruling or consensus, here. I don't think the ammo is a concern, here, but you may get an occasional variation if people read it like some others have in this thread.
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Go the Starfinder Society subforum and post your question and ask to get in contact with a venture captain for your area so you can get the question resolved.
Like I said, I've been gaming online, so that's not really feasible.
I regularly text my Venture Captain. I've been playing longer than him. A local ruling wouldn't be an issue.
But just this week alone I've played in four different states, so what my VC agrees with doesn't necessarily matter elsewhere.
In my personal experience if something seems unclear I just assume it doesn't work so I'm not disappointed, until there is clarification otherwise.
This is my usual practice as well.
Go the Starfinder Society subforum and post your question and ask to get in contact with a venture captain for your area so you can get the question resolved.Like I said, I've been gaming online, so that's not really feasible.
I regularly text my Venture Captain. I've been playing longer than him. A local ruling wouldn't be an issue.
But just this week alone I've played in four different states, so what my VC agrees with doesn't necessarily matter elsewhere.
In my personal experience if something seems unclear I just assume it doesn't work so I'm not disappointed, until there is clarification otherwise.This is my usual practice as well.
Couldn't you ask your local VC to ask the people above them?
It might take time to get an answer that applies consistently across the whole of the "area" you play in, but I think you would get it.
I'm now curious how SFS would work online since the normal area based distribution hierarchy wouldn't really apply.
Go the Starfinder Society subforum and post your question and ask to get in contact with a venture captain for your area so you can get the question resolved.Like I said, I've been gaming online, so that's not really feasible.
I regularly text my Venture Captain. I've been playing longer than him. A local ruling wouldn't be an issue.
But just this week alone I've played in four different states, so what my VC agrees with doesn't necessarily matter elsewhere.
In my personal experience if something seems unclear I just assume it doesn't work so I'm not disappointed, until there is clarification otherwise.This is my usual practice as well.Couldn't you ask your local VC to ask the people above them?
It might take time to get an answer that applies consistently across the whole of the "area" you play in, but I think you would get it.
I'm now curious how SFS would work online since the normal area based distribution hierarchy wouldn't really apply.
The Online Megaregion also has Venture staff who help keep things running. Making binding rules decisions about actually ambiguous rules (as opposed to pointing people towards official clarifications that have been made) isn't really a thing they do, though. It isn't in meatspace, either.
People run games by their best understanding of the rules and when something is unclear, some variation will come up occasionally. The world rarely ends from it.
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Yeah the best practice is to accept when something is ambiguous, determine if you're comfortable with a conservative ruling, and decide whether that possibility still works for your character.
In these sorts of situations, though, the two possibilities are either "it works", or, "it doesn't". I came here to see if either A) I'd missed something obvious somewhere, or maybe a comment by a Designer that would give more sway to either side, or B) overwhelming support for one side that would give me a better feel for how other GMs might rule.
So far it looks like B, and not in my favor, so I'll look elsewhere.
Side note: I can't reasonably ask for an FAQ since this is literally the first time I have seen this question come up. PFS1 did have a thread for ambiguous rulings, but even those were typically ones that were commonly asked.
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I wouldn't think that the rule reading is overwhelming to either direction.
Personally I am in the camp of doubling the zero ammunition cost of Solar Flare working just fine to use Double Tap. Unless there was something about Solar Flare that says it can only be fired once in a standard action... Once per round would be the Unwieldy attribute and would prevent Full Attack actions.
So if you can fire the Solar Flare that frequently, I don't see why the lack of ammunition cost would mean that you couldn't use Double Tap.
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"This attack cannot benefit from the boost, guided, or variant boost weapon special properties, or any other ability or effect that is a move action and alters the effect of your attack or damage."
I'm not 100% up on which Solarian abilities this would impact, but it rather seems like you'd be losing damage using Double Tap.
I am not aware of any way to apply those properties to your Solar Flare, but if I have a move action available, I'm probably going to be using Curving Flare instead.
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That's why, like I said in opening post, I'd only be interested in using Double Tap when my only option was a single Standard Action.
Solarions can have lots of options for their Move Action, and obviously a Full Attack is ideal if available, but on the opening round if I'm Quickdrawing my Solar Flare and Move Actioning my Plasma Sheath, I only have a Standard Action remaining.
"This attack cannot benefit from the boost, guided, or variant boost weapon special properties, or any other ability or effect that is a move action and alters the effect of your attack or damage."I'm not 100% up on which Solarian abilities this would impact, but it rather seems like you'd be losing damage using Double Tap.
And as far as the ammunition usage goes, I'm of the mind that language saying "You must use double the ammunition or you can't use this ability" means that you can't use Double Tap with a weapon that has no ammo. I wouldn't care to wager if this was intentional on Paizo's part or if its just another example of someone not paying enough attention when developing new content for the game.
You know, I think I'm going to reverse my initial stance. They specifically called out the variant boost property, which as far as I know, is only available from solar crystals - so it sounds like they might have had the flare in mind when writing double tap.