Shaman / Sorcerer - how to learn new spells


Rules Questions


I have a starting out character - Shaman 2/Sorcerer 1. Aside from leveling and stat increases, how else can this character increase the list of known spells?

I see this description in PRD but nebulous at the end.

Adding Spells to a Sorcerer's or Bard's Repertoire: A sorcerer or bard gains spells each time she attains a new level in her class and never gains spells any other way. When your sorcerer or bard gains a new level, consult Table: Bard Spells Known or Table: Sorcerer Spells Known to learn how many spells from the appropriate spell list she now knows. With permission from the GM, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they come across while adventuring.

Scrolls, spellbooks, magic items? Anything?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

There are items like "Ring of Spell Knowledge" or "Page of Spell Knowledge" that grant additional spells to spontaneous casters.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

The last sentence is not about learning more spells, but learning spells not usually on the spell list. But no GM does that, so just ignore that sentence.

If you want more spells known, there's Page of Spell Knowledge, plus whatever your bloodline (and possibly archetype) grant.

I'm honestly a bit confused here, because your profile says you've been around for years, but the question sounds like someone asking for their first character.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

First, you usually don't multiclass full spellcasters - extra spellcaster levels in your main class gain you more than a handful of low level spells. A single level dip in sorcerer is something that is used for certain spellcasters specialising in blasting, but they're usually all about focusing on a single spell or a few such, not on getting as many as possible.

The quote you've got there is about being able to select unusual (and not previously available) spells as part of your spells known. They're still limited by your number of spells known as defined by the class though.

Edit: one means of increasing your spells known is alternate favored class bonuses. Instead of adding +1 HP or +1 skill point, many races have the option of adding a spell to your spell list (shaman) or to your spells known (sorcerer).


Thanks for these suggestions!

True on both parts. I've been gaming and pbp'ing for an embarassingly long time. Mostly as a GM, letting the players handle their sorcerers. Always felt from their first introduction in 3.0 that they were wonky, then came the Pathfinder mods and I never looked back. So now I'm trying two classes never tried before.

Here's the character. It's a tabletop game. He's a back-liner support - hex, heal, reach, blast. If it was your character, what progression would you go from here?

Shaman_Sorcerer:
Male half-orc shaman 2/sorcerer (eldritch scrapper) 1
LG Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +4
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 17, touch 12, flat-footed 15 (+5 armor, +2 Dex)
hp 27 (3 HD; 1d6+2d8+5)
Fort +1, Ref +2, Will +7
Defensive Abilities orc ferocity
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Special Attacks hexes (evil eye, misfortune)
Sorcerer (Eldritch Scrapper) Spells Known (CL 3rd; concentration +7)
1st (4/day)—magic missile, shield
0 (at will)—disrupt undead, mage hand, prestidigitation, shadow bite (DC 12)
Bloodline Psychic
Shaman Spells Prepared (CL 2nd; concentration +6)
1st—obscuring mist, sleep (DC 13), summon nature's ally I; charm animal[S] (DC 13)
0 (at will)—daze (DC 12), detect magic, resistance, stabilize
S spirit magic spell; Spirit Nature
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 14
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 13
Feats Alertness, Eschew Materials, Extra Hex[APG]
Traits focused mind, magical knack
Skills Acrobatics -2 (-6 to jump), Handle Animal +6, Heal +6, Intimidate +4, Knowledge (arcana) +4, Knowledge (nature) +4, Knowledge (planes) +4, Knowledge (religion) +4, Perception +4, Ride +2, Sense Motive +4, Spellcraft +4, Survival +6, Use Magic Device +6; Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate
Languages Common, Orc
SQ bloodline arcana (use thought and emotion components instead of verbal and somatic), martial flexibility, orc blood, spirit animal (greensting scorpion named Arcane Familiar), storm burst
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bloodline Arcana: Psychic Your sorcerer spells and spell-like abilities count as psychic, and you use T & E instead of V and S
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Evil Eye -2 (5 rounds, DC 13) (Su) Foe in 30 ft takes penalty to your choice of AC, attacks, saves, ability or skill checks (Will part).
Familiar Bonus: +4 bonus on initiative checks You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Martial Flexibility (move action, 4/day) (Ex) As a Move action, gain a combat feat for 1 min. More gained for greater actions.
Misfortune (1 round, DC 13) (Su) Foe in 30 ft must take the lower of 2d20 for rolls (Will neg).
Orc Blood Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Orc Ferocity (1/day) If brought below 0 Hp, can act as though disabled for 1 rd.
Psychic Psychic power runs thorough your blood, whether it be from a familial predisposition to psychic power or exposure to a powerful psychic phenomenon. Whatever the source of this power, your mind is a dangerous weapon.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Spirit Animal (spirit animal (greensting scorpion named Arcane Familiar)) If spirit animal is slain, cannot use spirit magic or prepare new spells.
Storm Burst (5/day) (Su) As a standard action, foe in 30 ft treats all others as concealed for 1 rd.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

First I'd try to retrain alertness. You get that feat free when you're carrying your familiar/spirit animal, no need to buy it separately.

With martial flexibility it helps to have a feat or two to build off rather than being limited to entry-level feats; if you take combat reflexes then options like bodyguard open up, or dirty fighting allows flexing into the improved combat maneuver feats, or weapon focus or improved unarmed strike open up a surprising number of tricks. Retrain alertness into one of those?

For future plans I'd stick with shaman because you have the most levels in that. The half-orc alternate favored class bonus fits your desire to have as many spells as possible, and obviously it's going to work best when you have as high a level in shaman as possible:

Quote:
Add one spell from the cleric spell list that isn’t on the shaman spell list to the list of spells the shaman knows. This spell must be at least 1 level below the highest spell level the shaman can cast.

It may be worth retraining the sorcerer level too if it's not key to your character concept.

For future feats some metamagic effectively gives you access to new spells. Reach spell or blissful spell or tumultuous spell can turn old spells into new, more useful ones. It's not possible yet, but remember your spirit magic spells are cast spontaneously - you can add metamagic to them on the fly. It would also be possible to concentrate a bit on summoning if you like, one of the nature spirit hexes lets you cast summon nature's ally spontaneously. Augment summoning is the obvious feat to aim for if you go that way.


Rockin' advice AVR - thanks a bunch for those tips. I will try a few builds to test out these ideas!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Badmucus wrote:
He's a back-liner support - hex, heal, reach, blast. If it was your character, what progression would you go from here?

Shaman, because that way you only have one dead level and not two.

Seriously, like avr said, you don't multiclass full casters, because 99% of the time, what you lose is much more than what you gain. Not only for power, but also for versatility and playability.
Unlike a martial, where abilities from different classes often stack, and BAB definitely stacks, progression in spellcasting only ever comes from the class itself (and possibly prestige classes). The level in Sorcerer doesn't help your Shaman abilities in any way, meaning that when you cast a Shaman spell, it's like you were still a 2nd level character. You don't have 2nd level spells, and your caster level is 2 (so a spell with a duration of 1 round per elvel only lasts 2 rounds), even though your actual total character level is 3. Likewise, when casting a Sorcerer spell, it's like you're a 1st level character, and your caster level is 1 for those spells.

Note that other class features, e.g. your Hexes, also only progress from class levels, so for that, too, you want to be single-classed.

And while we're at it, your ability scores are spread out too much. If you want to use spells or hexes that allow a saving throw, you should strife to have a high respective ability score (wisdom for Shaman). It's possible to play a caster with other types of spells (and hexes), e.g. by focussing on buffs, summoning spells, and spells that affect the battlefield rather than enemies, but that seems to be a different direction from what you're going in.
And while higher ability scores do not affect spells known (of a spontaneous caster), they do increase spells per day.


Great summary Derklord!

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Shaman / Sorcerer - how to learn new spells All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.