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Exalt for the Redeemer cause seems much more situational than Exalt for the Paladin or Liberator, unless I'm missing something.
For the Paladin, if an ally is damaged then every ally in range can also take a Retributive Strike. For the Liberator, if an ally is damaged then every ally in range can take the step granted.
For the Redeemer, if an ally is damaged then every ally can benefit from the resistance provided. But the resistance only applies to the triggering damage, so it seems it would only come into play for an AoE attack. That seems so much more limited than the other Champions, but I haven't played at this level yet with mine.
How does this end up working in practice? Is it something the Redeemer can use frequently, or is it significantly more rare than the others?
Resistance to a Fireball for your entire party seems like a pretty powerful upgrade to me, assuming you think the Redeemer's base Reaction is good.
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I agree that the liberator exalt is very very good, but it is often considered one of the weaker champion reactions up to that point, so it is ok to me that it gets better at 11.
The paladin one though sticks the other attackers with a -5 penalty, and costs them their reaction. It can be pretty difficulty to build a party that has more than 1 character that is going to take advantage of that attack and not have some other kind of reaction that is going to be more useful to the party.
I think the redeemer ability probably comes in above that.
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Team wide protection from AoE is not nearly as bad as you would think. Especially for squishy party members.
Its come up at least 3-4 times in Age of Ashes over 20 levels for my parties Redeemer. Its not useless, and its not too bad.
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Its come up at least 3-4 times in Age of Ashes over 20 levels for my parties Redeemer. Its not useless, and its not too bad.It is if compared to a paladin reaction.
Also, the fact the DM allowed it to happens doesn't mean that it would occour 3x from lvl 11 to lvl 20 ( and 3x is bad. It's 1 every 3 levels ).
How many times does Wild Empathy come up in most campaigns, for Rangers, since it essentially offers nothing over Nature?
A given niche class feature coming up more than once is pretty good in general.
The Paladin Exalt requires your melee allies to spend their reaction, making it generally pretty awful. No Martial character I've GMed for would be happy with an attack at -5 for their reaction, when they could be getting one at no penalty through their own class features via AOO or similar. Its a classic example of something that is good on paper, but has little practical application.
Its just too easy to force an enemy into an AOO or other reaction attack trigger for it to matter.
Its come up at least 3-4 times in Age of Ashes over 20 levels for my parties Redeemer. Its not useless, and its not too bad.It is if compared to a paladin reaction.
Also, the fact the DM allowed it to happens doesn't mean that it would occour 3x from lvl 11 to lvl 20.
And 3x is bad.
from 11 to 20 we have 10 levels, which means less than 1 use every 3 levels.
However, to answer to the op:
Redemer and liberator will use their exalt way, way, way less than a paladin. There is literaly not a comparison.
This regardless the fact somebody could consider that specific exalt "Awesome!", "Ok" or "Sucky"
The Paladin version of Exalt is the worst one. If your buddies are in combat with the target, they have better Reactions than a Strike at -5.
Honestly Redeemer is probably the best one. It would have by far the most impact on a combat.
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Its come up at least 3-4 times in Age of Ashes over 20 levels for my parties Redeemer. Its not useless, and its not too bad.It is if compared to a paladin reaction.
Also, the fact the DM allowed it to happens doesn't mean that it would occour 3x from lvl 11 to lvl 20.
And 3x is bad.
from 11 to 20 we have 10 levels, which means less than 1 use every 3 levels.
However, to answer to the op:
Redemer and liberator will use their exalt way, way, way less than a paladin. There is literaly not a comparison.
This regardless the fact somebody could consider that specific exalt "Awesome!", "Ok" or "Sucky"
The Paladin version of Exalt is the worst one. If your buddies are in combat with the target, they have better Reactions than a Strike at -5.
Honestly Redeemer is probably the best one. It would have by far the most impact on a combat.
The paladin one will become -2 with its feat.
And will be a possibility.Don't want to use it but eventually I could
Vs
It could happen 1 every 3/4 levels
really needs no confrontation at all.
You are playing a very different version of this game then. This is something that most groups could routinely use.
Honestly, the fact that the Paladin Exalt is the only one that has a Feat to make it better should indicate to you how bad it is. It's also a Feat that is competing with much better Feats.
Really, imagining hypotetical scenario where redemer and liberator exalt is too far from reality for me, but still I have no issues if others like doing so.
Dismissing the actual stated experiences of others as 'hypothetical' is not a valid argument.
I've seen the Redeemer version of this ability come up, because it inherently applies in situations where the monster can't just choose to target the Champion, because they're using an AOE. And your allies don't have to give up their resources to benefit. It doesn't happen every fight, but it doesn't need to since its free.
I can't imagine any of my Martial players settling for a Reaction attack at -2 to hit, when they're almost always getting an AOO every turn anyways. That is hypothetical, because its not actually happened to me, but its backed up by my experience thus far. It might be ok occasionally, but it seems pretty suboptimal for spending a reaction.
Amusingly I have had the fireball scenario (with fireballs and cones) happens 6 times last session, 3 times the session before that and many throughout every level other than 1-3 where there are less AoE creatures and using them is a bit scary for new players.
But remember that Exalt is a level 11 ability, and the base ability is really strong ( no damage or resistance and enfeebled2), it isn't like enemies are short on regular and impactful AoE's at those levels.
Also you know, Dragons
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Yeah if you're up there almost in the dragon's mouth, doing your melee champion thing, and it tries to be clever and catch both you and your mates in a cone or line breath weapon... well that's what this ability is for. Dealing with attacks that are going to not just hit you but the people behind you that you're trying to shield.
To be honest, spreading in order to force the dragon to hit 2 out of 4 characters would be better.
A narrow space could require the whole party to be close to each other and melee to a dragon, but it would be a really strange one.
Yeah, but we aren't just talking about dragons. And who knows what caused the group to be together or what other threats they are facing.
Even if the Paladin's exalt can be questionable, it does have one of the more useful reactions. It can take hits as a tank, and deal out damage in return.
Even if enemies avoid you, you can grab AoO and still deal damage. Enemies have to take very specific steps (...well, actual Steps) to avoid getting smacked by you in some manner. And that wastes their actions.
A tank that can waste enemy actions just by standing there is a good tank. So I would forgive them for having a 'meh' exalt.
A tank that can waste enemy actions just by standing there is a good tank. So I would forgive them for having a 'meh' exalt.I agree that it's the point ( , but more than "wasting enemy actions" I consider the redeemer a great debuffer for what concerns enemy attacks.
The redemeer reaction is probably the best one among champions ( enfeebled 2 is so damn strong, and even if the enemy consider to forgo is first damaging attack to avoid further penalties, it would be insane too ).
This regardless the fact somebody could consider the exalt "meh" "ok" "insane" or whatever.
Yeah, but is the 'crane wing' curse- if your defense is too good and hitting you costs too much, enemies avoid engaging you. But the total area of reactions available to the paladin makes it so that enemies REALLY have to go out of their way to avoid you.
If your GM is ""tactical"", then you essentially have an AoE slow effect because the GM wastes actions every turn to avoid triggering anything. Getting into your GM's headspace and tricking them into bad decisions is its own reward.
On a side note, the actual smart move for a GM is to tack on some low level kobolds to distract the paladin/tie up their reactions and allow the dragon to run around without any fear.