Wands are awesome for the evergreen spells.
Longstrider heightened, haste, fly and the like. Things you can see yourself casting every day.
I agree about the Evergreen spells on wands. Especially good when you pick them up at a higher level when they are dirt cheap imo compared to your wealth imo.
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Scrolls of 1 level lower than your maximum level drop to 3-4% of your wealth per level though, meaning you can have 5 or 6 total per level for 15 to 20% of your wealth per level. Even if you are leveling up every 3 or 4 actual adventuring days, that means you can pretty much burn a scroll a day with minimum investment. And breaking a level into 4 adventuring days means you are getting pretty much a top level spell and 2 next level down spells per encounter, using one scroll a day. That is some pretty decent power.
You cannot buy that many high level scrolls unless the party is literally giving you all their money. Even then its up to the GM to determine what scrolls you can get. Crafting them will take you 4 days minimum each at full cost.
It was my level 9 Starfinder Society Mystic. So, it was no DM fiat, I really bought my spell gems. Also, it was Dead Suns part 5 with a DM who's notorious for his lack of care about balance (he once put our PF2 level 1 party against 1 level 4 and 6 level 2 creatures and blamed us for being ripped appart).
You cannot buy that many high level scrolls unless the party is literally giving you all their money. Even then its up to the GM to determine what scrolls you can get. Crafting them will take you 4 days minimum each at full cost.It was my level 9 Starfinder Society Mystic. So, it was no DM fiat, I really bought my spell gems. Also, it was Dead Suns part 5 with a DM who's notorious for his lack of care about balance (he once put our PF2 level 1 party against 1 level 4 and 6 level 2 creatures and blamed us for being ripped appart).I figured you were talking about Starfinder since you were talking about a Mystic.
The point still stands that you cannot get that many high level scrolls without the GM handing them out to you.
I completely agree, PF2 and SF have many small differences:
- In SF, your highest spell level matters a lot before level 10. Lower level spells can be used but are hyper circumstancial. In PF2, you have more spells of more levels. By default, you are more sustainable in PF2.- In SF, all casters have the same number of spells per day and as such the same sustainability. In PF2, some builds are more sustainable than others. Wild Druids and Spell Blenders are crazy sustainable. On the other hand, Leaf Druids have big sustainability issues. If you choose properly your build (compared to your sustainability needs) it should also make things easier.
- In SF, Spell Gems (scrolls) are cheaper and have better action economy. It is hard to use many scrolls during one fight in PF2 without being completely static.
Sustainability is harder to maintain through scrolls in PF2 but it's easier to be sustainable through sheer number of spell slots + focus spells.
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The point still stands that you cannot get that many high level scrolls without the GM handing them out to you.
You can afford plenty of scrolls with the proportion of wealth you are not spending keeping your primary weapon upgraded to the same degree non-casters are pressures to.
You dont need a dozen, or even a half dozen, to help you manage your spell slots to get you through any reasonable adventuring day.
If you're running low on spells on a regular basis, your GM may be pushing you further than is normally expected.
I've run entire dungeons start to finish where the groups casters aren't completely tapped by the end of them, because theyre managing their spell slots well.
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If you are investing in scrolls over Staves and wands, you are throwing money away.
I tend to think the opposite considering how most Staves and Wands are bad.
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If you are investing in scrolls over Staves and wands, you are throwing money away.I tend to think the opposite considering how most Staves and Wands are bad.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat! Staves and Wands are awesome!
The changes to Staves make them one of my favorite items in the system, particularly for prepared casters, and particularly for Wizards. I am so pumped for the Staff Nexus Wizard in the APG!
They have different roles than they used to, but those rolls are great in the new system.
To get the most out of them you are going to need to start crafting your own, but that's a better use of cash than scrolls.
Well, there are plenty of spells that don't make a great long term investment on a wand (things that become less useful to you over time without being able to heighten). Maybe that was the "most" in "most wands are bad."
Wands of some spells are definitely not bad at all, though.
Yeah, a lot of spells are much better served sticking on a scroll than paying premium for a wand. Some wands are great value though, especially the 1st level regular bandits (longstrider, true strike) because they're so cheap.
...how are wands bad?
Wands are just way to expensive for what they are. A wand costs 10 to 15 times the price of a scroll of the same spell. Wands can be used only once per day (when 10-15 scrolls can be used as much as you want). And you can't buy wands of your highest spell level, unlike scrolls.
So, there are a few wands that are good (Manifold Missiles being the obvious ones), a few evergreen that are justifiable and Wand of Heal I if you want to get rid of 10-minutes break at high level.
But when you find a Wand while adventuring, 90% of the time it's better to sell it and buy scrolls with the money gained. It's more bang for your buck.
Staves are even more expensive. Only the low level ones are useful if you want a lot of first/second level spells (Staff of Divination being a classic).
Theres a specific number of times you have to cast a spell for a Wand to make more sense than a scroll, and I'd predict the vast majority of characters will not hit that threshold over the course of an actual campaign.
Wands are great for things like... camping spells.
Staves are good for action economy with spells like True Strike, or for saving spells known and slots for things like Clairvoyance, while scouting, where spamming it to scope out a number of rooms is a good idea.
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Well, there are plenty of spells that don't make a great long term investment on a wand (things that become less useful to you over time without being able to heighten). Maybe that was the "most" in "most wands are bad."
Wands of some spells are definitely not bad at all, though.
Better investments than scrolls of the same spell!
To me, Wands are best used for two types of spells. In my guide I refer to them as "Class C" spells. C for Constant, C for Situational.
These are spells that either have a duration which lasts for all, or a substantial part of the adventuring day (Mage Amour, Ant Haul, Longstrider, etc). Or are for spells you will maybe cast once a day if you are lucky, but still want to have access to (Air Bubble, Feather Fall, etc.)
Well, there are plenty of spells that don't make a great long term investment on a wand (things that become less useful to you over time without being able to heighten). Maybe that was the "most" in "most wands are bad."
Wands of some spells are definitely not bad at all, though.
Better investments than scrolls of the same spell!
To me, Wands are best used for two types of spells. In my guide I refer to them as "Class C" spells. C for Constant, C for Situational.
These are spells that either have a duration which lasts for all, or a substantial part of the adventuring day (Mage Amour, Ant Haul, Longstrider, etc). Or are for spells you will maybe cast once a day if you are lucky, but still want to have access to (Air Bubble, Feather Fall, etc.)
I'd argue that if I don't know for a fact I'm going to cast a spell 10-15 times, there's very little case to be made that a wand is a superior investment.
Especially for anything situational - situational spells are where scrolls are the absolute best.
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Well, there are plenty of spells that don't make a great long term investment on a wand (things that become less useful to you over time without being able to heighten). Maybe that was the "most" in "most wands are bad."
Wands of some spells are definitely not bad at all, though.
Better investments than scrolls of the same spell!
To me, Wands are best used for two types of spells. In my guide I refer to them as "Class C" spells. C for Constant, C for Situational.
These are spells that either have a duration which lasts for all, or a substantial part of the adventuring day (Mage Amour, Ant Haul, Longstrider, etc). Or are for spells you will maybe cast once a day if you are lucky, but still want to have access to (Air Bubble, Feather Fall, etc.)
I'd argue that if I don't know for a fact I'm going to cast a spell 10-15 times, there's very little case to be made that a wand is a superior investment.
Especially for anything situational - situational spells are where scrolls are the absolute best.
True, thats last part may be a matter of preference. A scroll of Feather Fall and a Wand of Feather Fall are probably going to be situationally similar, so I'll concede a Scroll on that one.
Mage Armour on the other hand, wand me up!
It also depends on "how situational" and "what level". If I'm high enough level I'll just splurge on the wand of Feather Fall since the difference in price is so low.
If I'm at 7th level and want some backup antidote, though, there's no way in a million years I'm spending all that money on a wand of neutralize poison over a scroll. Situational spells near the level I'm at is going to be scroll all day, every day.
As I said, if the spell is cast daily or frequently enough then a wand is solid.
Scrolls are also great, and I have to laugh at people who don't prep some of the more niche but hugely impactful spells into scrolls. I would much prefer to have the spell that saves me or my party from a really dangerous scenario at hand incase I do need it... Than spend the same price on a wand, spell repetoire or prepare it.
People really obsess over getting static and frequently used bonuses when it comes to their characters.It is good to a point, but easy to go overboard with it.
I wouldn't go nuts, but there is more that enough room in a spellcaster's budget to buy things to aid their spellcasting flexibility imo.
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Mage Armour on the other hand, wand me up!
Isn't a Wand of Mage armor significantly more expensive than getting equivalent actual armor via Explorer's clothing, without the added benefit of property runes?
The idea is fine, but the applications are still fairly limited. A wand of Rope Trick, if available, is pretty good for similar reasons to the one implied.
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Mage Armour on the other hand, wand me up!
Remember that a Wand of Mage Armor doesn't give you one cast of Mage Armor per day because if you hadn't had the wand, you would have prepared Mage Armor anyway. What the Wand of Mage Armor gives you is the ability to prepare another spell instead of Mage Armor, and it's the casting of this (way more situational) spell that you have to track to determine if your wand has been useful. And chances are high that a few scrolls of this spell would have been a way better investment than the Wand of Mage Armor.
Wands are way too expensive. If they had been 5 times the price of a scroll, I would have been the first one to encourage massive investment. But 10 to 15 times the price of a scroll is way out of line. Outside Manifold Missiles, I know I'll never buy nor keep a wand.
Wands of the highest level of spells are 5x the cost of a same level scroll, though.
It's only the levels at which both are fairly inexpensive that wands are as much as 15x the price of scrolls... and I believe the reason for that is because "buy as many wands of heal as we can get our hands on!" (and other similar useful if you can spam it low-level spells) can reach problematic quantities soon if the cost is lower.
You should look at it again. The lowest cost is 10 times at level 4, 5 and 6. After that, it gets higher again and end up at 13.33 times for level 9 wands.
Can you use feather fall from a scroll? I guess you could if you had it in hand as you were falling.
Overall, if you play prepared caster in particular, but any caster really, and you feel like you are running out of spells to cast and feeling useless in combat more often than you are finding yourself being knocked unconscious, then you are probably not managing your material resources very well, because you should be casting spells that make the enemy want to prevent you from casting any more spells. Waiting 1 more level to get the next +1 to a defense is not so terrible that it justifies conserving all possible wealth that you leave yourself with nothing to do in combat.
Well, there are plenty of spells that don't make a great long term investment on a wand (things that become less useful to you over time without being able to heighten). Maybe that was the "most" in "most wands are bad."
Wands of some spells are definitely not bad at all, though.
Better investments than scrolls of the same spell!
To me, Wands are best used for two types of spells. In my guide I refer to them as "Class C" spells. C for Constant, C for Situational.
These are spells that either have a duration which lasts for all, or a substantial part of the adventuring day (Mage Amour, Ant Haul, Longstrider, etc). Or are for spells you will maybe cast once a day if you are lucky, but still want to have access to (Air Bubble, Feather Fall, etc.)
While these are fine things to put on wands, there are other spells I would never want to put on a wand, such as damage spells or incapacitation spells. Those are much better for scrolls.