Casting spells ABOVE water

[Shorticus]

I know there are rules for casting spells underwater. But are there rules regarding casting spells while swimming with your head above the surface of water?

[RAWmonger]

No. Vigorous through very violent movement might apply depending on the type of water, or other distraction-related concentration checks. But the main problem with casting underwater is the fact that the caster can’t breathe underwater.

“Spellcasting Underwater: Casting spells while submerged can be difficult for those who cannot breathe underwater. A creature that cannot breathe water must make a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell underwater (this is in addition to the caster level check to successfully cast a fire spell underwater). Creatures that can breathe water are unaffected and can cast spells normally. Some spells might function differently underwater, subject to GM discretion.”

[Mark Hoover 330]

How are you staying afloat? If holding onto a float/surface, you might not have a hand free. If treading water, vigorous activity/violent motion. If the water is moving you're talking Move actions for Swim checks unless you have a swim speed. If using the Levitate spell that carries it's own issues. All of the penalties with this activity are from how you're remaining above water, not the water itself.

[Shorticus]

RAWmonger wrote:

No. Vigorous through very violent movement might apply depending on the type of water, or other distraction-related concentration checks. But the main problem with casting underwater is the fact that the caster can’t breathe underwater.

Right, I know about those rules, so I was just asking if anything RAW made casting above water require any sort of additional checks or the like.

Quote:

How are you staying afloat? If holding onto a float/surface, you might not have a hand free. If treading water, vigorous activity/violent motion. If the water is moving you're talking Move actions for Swim checks unless you have a swim speed. If using the Levitate spell that carries it's own issues. All of the penalties with this activity are from how you're remaining above water, not the water itself.

Okay, but do move actions to stay afloat for swim checks prevent casting spells or require concentration checks?

What if the creature has a swim speed but can't breathe underwater?

I'm looking for any rules that exist on the topic, not homebrew, note. Specifically, I'm looking for any rules that might exist for casting spells while afloat above the water but not underwater.

It doesn't seem like there are, by the sounds of it.

[Mark Hoover 330]

In a round a PC can take a Standard and a Move action. The taking of a Move action doesn't, in itself, preclude a PC from taking a Standard to cast a spell. The requirements for casting a spell while moving are clearly spelled out and you've stated you know those already.

If you have a Swim speed but can't breathe underwater, it all comes down to the Swim check. The movement should be seamless but even though Swim speed gives you a bonus to the Swim check and you can take a 10 all the time, the fact still remains that if you FAIL that swim check you suffer further penalties and could be Drowning.

But then, you also said you're familiar with the rules of casting underwater so that's its own issue and you know it already.

There are no rules specifically pertaining to casting while treading water or otherwise bobbing in the drink. The specific rules you'd want to consult are

1. Swim checks and Swim speed benefits
2. Casting without a hand free (only if you're using 2 hands to hold onto a float or support of some kind)
3. Casting underwater or while violently moving (which you already said you know)

[Shorticus]

That's a good summary for me. Thanks for the help!

I'm about to run a session involving LOTS of water in a living campaign so I'm just making sure I have all the official rules I need to reference when writing notes for that adventure. Trying to keep everything as true to the RAW as possible since it's a living world and not a home table.

[VoodistMonk]

Something to keep in mind is that the area of some spells will extend below the surface of the water, even if cast above the surface. Gotta be aware of all three dimensions when dealing with water, whether above or below the surface.