| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Ok, I've felt there are some issues with shields, and shield blocks and the sustainability of higher level magic shields. While I discuss a method of feeling better about trying to limit painful the metagame process of skipping destroying a shield that your character would have tried to block with, because you know the game can't withstand the lose of the wealth of destroying your shield, I feel like there are viable ways of cutting this danger down, without getting rid of the potential of items being broken, and thus unusable for some defined length of time. (either break and repair, or longer downtime requirements).
I know there are plenty who say that nothing should change. I don't really need to hear that, and it won't help me. I've actually thought about this for quite some time and tried to list the Axiom's that I'm trying to follow below. So ideally, I'd love some feedback on if I'm forgetting specific situations that would make the game broken if this was applied. [maybe a spell that makes this suddenly too powerful, or an item that would then seem broken, or a class ability I haven't considered] I'm very open to input, just don't tell me that you should loose your GP investment in a magic shield because you chose to block with it to stop 6HP of damage the first block with it.
Tell me if something creates a situation that you think breaks one of my axioms. Tell me if you think you have an improvement, and tell me why you think it is better. Tell me if one of my arguments or suggestions seems worthwhile but the other(s) go to far, and say why.
Some Axiom’s I’m trying to keep in mind with this set of suggestions.
Axiom 1: Sturdy shields should continue to represent the best blocking choice at that level in the Steel shield format. Most notably, it being able to stop the most damage, the most frequent number times before breaking.
Axiom 2: Shields with other magical utility should be limited to being less than a sturdy shield, by how much, depending on its utility.
Axiom 3: Special materials were intended to be usable to create both non-magical and variants for many of the magical shields. Determining their final stats should be spelled out and relatively simple.
Axiom 4: Druids should have access to a reasonable option for blocking shields if they so choose.
Axiom 5: Undamaged magical shields should not generally be able to be destroyed by an on-level creature in one hit. Magical shield destruction, should be very rare. Same probably would apply for special materials as strong or stronger than iron. (special materials softer than iron/steel, destruction in a single hit might be understandable, if used that way)
Axiom 6: Normal shield block reaction, the wielder chooses to block after hearing the damage
Ok, I was going to list it as Axiom 7, but it occurred to me it didn’t have to be an assumption, it is important, but might need to be weighted against other factors, so I decided to instead call it and the next as a Goal instead of an Axiom.
Goal 1: One shouldn’t be a big incentive to generally skip blocking critical hits because they do twice or more of typical on-level damage.
Goal 2: Keep shield damage and block resolution relatively simple if possible, if we change things.
Ok, some quick steps through the axioms looking at things such as RAW and one example of a suggestion I decided not to pursue and why.
Axiom 1 test: The Indestructible shield has lower Hardness than a similar level Sturdy shield, and its HP for a single blow is smaller than the sturdy shield, although it never takes actual damage that sticks past the effect, it is either destroyed or not. I’ll consider this a success as it is primarily less effective as a blocking shield than the sturdy shield but does have an advantage of longer (almost infinite) life, but blocking less damage. This seems like a good and reasonable axiom to step forward with.
Axiom 2 test: will prohibit Sturdy from being a rune that could be applied to any shield to bring its statistics up to a sturdy shield. We don’t want to allow a sturdy spellguard shield, based on the axiom. That seems reasonable to me, some might disagree, but I consider it a reasonable axiom I will go forward with.
Axiom 3 test: RAW non-magical items are clear, but of questionable value. It is however, not at all clear how specialized shields could be made from special materials, although implication was they could be made of them. In this case the RAW rules seem to fail my intended axiom. I still consider the axiom reasonable and good, leaving a call for modifications.
Axiom 4 test: It appears that sturdy shields are by fluff defined as always metal. So as RAW rules appear to fail on this, but it might be that Darkwood might be a viable material for druids, and might thus be a viable option for sturdy shields, if they don’t have to be steel. Only requiring being as strong as steel. This isn’t clear for sure what is intended. This axiom might be contrary to the desire of the developers, but it really seems like a reasonable axiom.
Axiom 5 test: This appears that many higher level shields in the core rulebooks RAW could easily fail this axiom. It has sounded like some of the shields in the APs are being made stronger, but this might mean the original intent was for most of them to be less likely to be quickly destroyed.
Axiom 6 test: More of a statement of my understanding of rules. One I’ve heard some that GMs don’t follow, that drastically changes the viability of shield block reactions. I'm stating it because I want people to know I know that rule, and I know that outside of a seemingly broken shield mechanic like Arrow Catcher shield, that in theory the player has to choose to willingly destroy their shield by raw.
Testing Goal 1: Based on the fact that many shield can be destroyed from full on a single hit, this makes blocking critical hits even more foolish frequently, failing this test by raw. The intent behind this Axiom it to reduce the number of times one would have to choose to have the character not use the ability, because it would destroy their shield, when it makes sense they would at least try.
So, I was, for a very short time, in favor of Sturdy being a property rune. However, if pursuing that, then shields should only be able to have one property rune, and sturdy would take that (or would need to be split into multiple runes, of which sturdy as a whole took it up). While it might be possible to replicate sturdy shields with property runes as well as potency runes would be possible, it would likely require reworking everything to be rune effects for everything. Not going to go there, I’d rather try to come up with something closer to what they have now in basis.
First, let’s deal with shields being easily destroyed with on-level attacks.
So simplest adjustment, shields don’t get destroyed. But any shield at 0 HP has to be re-crafted by someone with an appropriate crafting tier (level and rank) based on the shield’s crafting level, as well as the necessary tools to craft. There would be no cost, other than time. Effects like disintegrate that destroy any remains of an object may be destroyed however. But effects that simply do HP damage do not completely destroy shields.
If I wanted to allow shields in truly rare circumstances to be able to be completely destroyed. I’d say simply, if a shield was undamaged, before the hit, it requires taking a hit that would exceed its HP by its max HP. If the shield was damaged to begin with, to be completely destroyed, the hit must exceed the shields remaining HP by its normal BT.
Both of these rules don’t really impact any one encounter at all, is merely might allow a shield that would have been broken to be re-crafted for the cost of time crafting, and capability to craft. I don’t feel these are problems with Axioms 1 and 2, since Sturdy shields are still by far the best for blocking, and doesn’t change the outcome of any individual encounter. Axiom 3 it might make some material shields less of a questionable investment, but probably not enough to make people satisfied, but shouldn’t break anything. It doesn’t really affect Axiom 4 in my view. Axiom 5 is of course where this shines, largely eliminating the core issue with it. Axiom 6, in no way broken by this, but when a GM doesn’t follow the Axiom, it actually is less traumatic in this case. Goal 1, this helps a little bit, if the critical hit remains under the damage threshold that would destroy the shield outright because it exceeded the existing HP, but not enough to get past the BT or original max HP if undamaged prior to being hit. Goal 2, the added complexity is relatively simple, dividing destroyed into destroyed and completely destroyed 0hp = destroyed; exceeding remaining damage by BT or Max HP nets completely destroyed.
Next let us take a look at special materials.
You take the higher of the material or magical shields hardness. The magic shield, and the material both have their own defined/shown multipliers. For a magic shield of a special material use the greater of the two multipliers.
This clarification seems like it could help significantly. Of the existing materials in core, only Silver and Dragonhide have lower hardness than steel, so those two would have exceptions in their block, stating how to calculate hardness. (such as take the lower of the two)
I’m going to recommend however that all the shields made of special materials with Standard Grade, rather than low Grade materials, should have their multiplier for calculating max HP increased from x4 to x6. I’m also looking at having High-Grade adamantine potentially advance the multiplier up to x8. A concern cropped up when I realized that doing so meant that a High grade Adamantine shield then had the same statistics as a Level 10 Sturdy shield, and that that edged up on the Sturdy shields territory. However, revisiting the rule, the sturdy shield should be the best long term high damage mitigation, longest durability shield of its level, and so a shield that is minimum 6 levels higher being able to have similar stats is not really that bad, and doesn’t actually break this axiom.
By focusing on a material having a HP and a multiplier which yields its HP (and BT) I think it makes it easy to allow magic shields of various materials to have different statistics quickly calculated, and yield a variety of reasonable results if the materials stats are reasonable. Hardness advances far slower for hard materials than sturdy shields but that is fine, it keeps sturdy well entrenched in its niche. The thing that is most troublesome has been shields getting broken or more often destroyed right off the bat at higher levels. By making the default be that Standard-grade and High-grade materials (as strong as steel) jump to a x6 multiplier would help the higher level shields survive longer, and give magic shields made from such materials a small boost in their survival chances.
Druid’s ability to use a sturdy or sturdy like shield.
Damage applied to the shield.
With this in mind, to help with the sustainability of shields, reduction in the need to pull back from blocking critical hits due to the high likelihood of them being able to break and even destroy the shield, I suggest we change what damage affects the shield. Unless the shield is actually the designated target (not normally viable by RAW) damage the shield takes should not include precision damage, or extra damage from a critical hit. That means that would mean that you don’t multiply damage for calculating shield damage, you don’t add the precision, sneak attack, or deadly dice, nor the extra die from fatal trait. (for clarity and simplicity of rolling; yes, the shield takes the larger die damage caused by the fatal trait) This is consistent with what seems reasonable that a deadly hit on a person, doesn’t mean it is just as destructive to the shield it hit before landing. I’m open to a new trait that a weapon could be given that would be something like Shieldbreaker, by which critical damage it does (still not precision probably though) will get applied to shields when achieved. A viable trait, perhaps for something like a maul or earthbreaker. This complicates the shield damage calculation a little bit, but it is already important that damage be tracked on if it is supposed to be doubled or not when calculating, so this merely means you keep the non-double number as part of your result/answer in cases with a shield block. I think it is both reasonable, and worthwhile application, but recognize some might disagree. If not liking to keep track of it, you could simply halve the final critical damage and it would get you close in many cases.
Although you could potentially use only one of a few of these recommendations, the following is a package that seems well thought out.
Summary of recommendations:
Shield being taken down to 0HP are considered destroyed but can be re-crafted given 1 days work. The crafter must have the tools and capability to craft a shield of that level, to re-craft it. This is similar to transferring runes, in that it is a crafting activity but is not strictly using the normal crafting rules. Note a shield that was taken to 0 by a blow (or damaged after already having being destroyed) can be completely destroyed, if the remaining damage exceeds the original BT of the shield (or the MAX HP if the shield was at full HP prior to the hit in question). A completely destroyed shield cannot be re-crafted to make is usable again. Special abilities such as disintegrate that completely destroy the shield as part of its effect if it brings it down to 0hp, will cause a shield that lost all its HP to become completely destroyed, but other effects which just cause damage will not.
Default rule for calculating Hardness and HP(BT) of magical/special material shields: is to maintain the higher of both the hardness, and the multiplier of the magic shield, and its special material’s grade. Exceptions are added to the Dragonhide and Silver shield special materials, indicating they use the lower of the two hardnesses, unless specified otherwise. Making the special materials more viable, and offering a choice to improving higher level shields, my recommendation is special materials get boosted as follows. All the existing Standard-grade special materials have their multiplier boosted to 6x increasing their listed HP (and BT). High-grade adamantine has its multiplier increased to 8x. As far as specific magic shields, some might specify certain types of materials. An example could be Spellguard and Reflecting shields being adjusted to require they be made of silver or mithral. Likely, it makes sense to require that Dragonslayer shields must be made of Dragonhide, but use the hardness listed in the magic shield.
Sturdy Shields get defined as being able to be made from wood. It does not lower the cost of the shield, but it does reduce the hardness by 2 and reduces the multiplier by 2 down to 6x. Sturdy shield can also be made as a buckler. These bucklers cost the same as their larger forms, but have the same hardness and HP as a Wood Sturdy Shield (-2 hardness from normal, only 6x multiplier) whether made from wood or steel. Sturdy shield can be made from Darkwood and then have the same attributes as regular steel sturdy shields. They can be made from any other special material as long as the material is at least as strong as steel. (Thus, it can’t be made from Silver or Dragonhide) Because of Sturdy shields high hardness and multiplier, such materials don’t normally affect either of those attributes.
Finally, when you block, when doing the damage calculation against the shield, you do not add precision damage, nor multiply the damage by two, nor do you add extra damage and dice due to the critical to the damage applied to the shield. (no sneak attack, no deadly dice, no extra die for fatal, but for clarity you do use the larger fatal die size for the normal damage dice.) This means that blocking critical hits will be a viable choice for most shields, similar to regular hits. This doesn't change the damage calculation done to the shield wielder, it is calculated as it always has been.
I’m also going to mention lastly, that players choosing to not use their reaction up to block against a critical or other attack, because they know that it will destroy their shield, which they can’t afford to have, need not have that decision be the choice of the character. They player can choose to describe their character attempting to block it, but failing for some reason outside of the control of the character. While I think the above rule helps keep the incentive to skip critical hits out for the rules, if a GM doesn’t like the above rule, this way of skinning your choice not to block, may help you feel like you are doing better justice for your character’s choices.
I'm all for people choosing not to use their reaction because they think keeping the +2 bonus to AC is more important at the moment, but I still dislike the game pushing for people to potentially systemically skip blocking the big blows because its systematic design it typically destroys their shield.
We use a homebrewed Sturdy Rune at our table that can only be etched on Shields. The Rune mimic's the Sturdy Shield just subtracted the Steel Shield values from it thus you get:
Usage etched on to a Shield to bolster its hardness and hit points. A shield, magical or otherwise can only have one such rune etched on to it. The Sturdy Shield already has this rune etched on it.
Type minor Level 4 Price 80 gp
Hardness +3 HP +44 & BT is equal to half HP
Type lesser Level 7 Price 300 gp
Hardness +5 HP +60 & BT is equal to half HP
Type moderate Level 10 Price 950gp
Hardness +8 HP +84 & BT is equal to half HP
Type greater Level 13 Price 2400gp
Hardness +10 HP +100 & BT is equal to half HP
Type major Level 16 Price 9000gp
Hardness +12 HP +116 & BT is equal to half HP
Type supreme Level 19 Price 32,000gp
Hardness +15 HP +140 & BT is equal to half HP
For Shield block at our table we use this:
You snap your shield in place to ward off a blow. Your shield prevents you from taking an amount of damage up to the shield’s Hardness. The blow is fully absorbed by the shield if there is no remaining damage left over. If there is any remaining damage then the you take the remaining damage from the blow and the shield takes up to its hardness in damage from the blow unless it was a critical hit then the shield will take up to double its hardness in damage from the blow.
Once a shield gains the Broken condition it can’t be used to Shield block nor does it grant AC bonus when raised.
Thus if you have a Steel Shield (Hardness 5 20 hp / 10 bt) and you block incoming damage of 8, the hardness removes 5 pts so now there is 3 points left over, you take 3 and the shield takes 3. If the blow would have been 20 points, the hardness removes 5 pts so now there is 15 points left over, you take 15 points and the shield only takes 5 points of damage, the shield survives. If the blow that did 20 points was a critical then the shield would have taken 10 points and would be broken.
It works fine at our table.
We use a homebrewed Sturdy Rune at our table that can only be etched on Shields. The Rune mimic's the Sturdy Shield just subtracted the Steel Shield values from it thus you get:
Usage etched on to a Shield to bolster its hardness and hit points. A shield, magical or otherwise can only have one such rune etched on to it. The Sturdy Shield already has this rune etched on it.
Type minor Level 4 Price 80 gp
Hardness +3 HP +44 & BT is equal to half HPType lesser Level 7 Price 300 gp
Hardness +5 HP +60 & BT is equal to half HPType moderate Level 10 Price 950gp
Hardness +8 HP +84 & BT is equal to half HPType greater Level 13 Price 2400gp
Hardness +10 HP +100 & BT is equal to half HPType major Level 16 Price 9000gp
Hardness +12 HP +116 & BT is equal to half HPType supreme Level 19 Price 32,000gp
Hardness +15 HP +140 & BT is equal to half HP
I did something similar by turning the Sturdy Shield's effect into an accessory rune that goes on only mundane items (so yes while it can go on basic and precious material shields, it can also go on a favourite pair of boots or a vehicle so long as the item doesn't have the magical tag). I also made it so that the only flat increase is to the base hardness of the item and then multiply the new base hardness by 8 to determine the new max HP (with BT being half max HP). I also renamed the accessory rune to Durable. Now enjoy your Supremely Durable Adamantine Shield (Hardness 28, HP 224, BT 112)