Bless Weapon is a lvl1 spell. Potions of lvl1 spells cost 50gp. Oil of bless weapon costs 50gp.
Honestly, potions are terrible. This one sees a bit more use overall, but only because of the DR/good factor.
Bless weapon is probably one of the better 1st level paladins spells. The spell is normally a paladin only spell so the most useful part of it is usually the auto conformation of a critical hit. A paladins smite evil already overcomes any DR so that part of the spell is less important to a paladin. If the paladin chose weapon as his divine bound he can add a variety of enchantments to his weapon. And at 14th level any weapon a paladin uses is considered good for purpose of overcoming DR.
The fact that as an oil any character can use it is what make oil of bless weapon more powerful than a lot of potions. But even so you still have to actually roll high enough to threaten a critical before that part kicks in, and it only works on an evil target. It also does not work with any other magical effect related to critical hits. So if you are using a keen, vorpal or even a flaming burst weapon that part does not work.
Flaming Burst is a magical affect that is triggers on a critical hit. Bless weapon specifically states that the automatic conformation does not apply to any weapon that has a magical effect related to critical hits. Being triggered by a critical hit is related to a critical hit so RAW it does negate the automatic conformation. If a GM wants to house rule otherwise that is their choice.
Bless weapon specifically states that the auto conformation does not work with vorpal weapons. Vorpal weapons only sever the head on a conformation of a critical hit when a natural 20 is rolled. A flaming burst weapon does extra damage on conformation of a critical hit. Both effects are magical effects that trigger on a critical hit. Other than the amount and type of damage how are they any different?
A +1 bonus can indirectly increase the chance of a critical hit occurring by increasing the chance of successfully rolling the needed number, but does not do so directly.
The criteria for deterring if it is related to a critical hit are fairly simple. Does the affect occur if there is no critical hit? If the answer is yes it is related to a critical hit and that aspect of bless weapon does not work. If the answer is no, it is not related to a critical hit and that aspect of bless weapon work.
On a side the feat improved critical in not a magical effect so it works quite well with bless weapon.
a +1 weapon adds more damage to a crit, flaming burst adds more damage to a crit, explain the difference.
they also both add damage on not a crit, the explanation for flaming burst is basically a bigger crit multiplier, change my mind.
Flaming Burst says "...a flaming burst weapon deals an extra 1d10 points of fire damage on a successful critical hit..."
Bless weapon says "This last effect does not apply to any weapon that already has a magical effect related to critical hits, such as a keen weapon or a vorpal sword."
I think the burden of proof is on you, here. Can you explain the difference between vorpal--which bless weapon specifically calls out as not working--and flaming burst--which you claim works just fine?
Flaming burst only adds the extra damage on a critical hit. The +1 damage from the weapon bonus is added even if the hit is a normal hit.
Flaming Burst: A flaming burst weapon functions as a flaming weapon that also explodes with flame upon striking a successful critical hit. The fire does not harm the wielder. In addition to the extra fire damage from the flaming ability (see above), a flaming burst weapon deals an extra 1d10 points of fire damage on a successful critical hit. If the weapon's critical multiplier is ×3, add an extra 2d10 points of fire damage instead, and if the multiplier is ×4, add an extra 3d10 points of fire damage.
The bolded sections make it quite clear that the extra damage only happens when a successful critical hit is made. The only thing that is added on a normal hit is the 1d6 of flame damage of fire. A standard flaming weapon would benefit from the automatic critical conformation, but not a flaming burst.
a +1 weapon adds more damage to a crit, flaming burst adds more damage to a crit, explain the difference.
they also both add damage on not a crit, the explanation for flaming burst is basically a bigger crit multiplier, change my mind.
Query: are you a troll or are you actually this dense?
Question: does flaming burst have an additional effect on a successful critical hit?
Please answer at your leisure.
A +1 weapon doesn't have a special effect on a crit, it just has the usual weapon effect on a crit (×2 damage or whatever). The crit is affected incidentally, rather than directly. Flaming Burst or Keen or Vorpal have direct specific effects that relate to crits.
...does a +3 weapon add anything extra on a crit? answer at your leisure.
I was not trying to be snarky in my previous post; I was asking a genuine, non-rhetorical question.
So first, to answer yours, no. A +3 enhancement bonus does not do more damage on a critical hit. The weapon itself does more damage, which includes the enhancement bonus, but the magical effect does not act any differently when a critical hit is confirmed.
Second question: as you agree that the flaming burst enchantment has an additional effect on a successful critical hit, would it be fair to say that the enchantment is related to critical hits?
vhok's argument seems to be that flaming burst has an effect on every hit, not just on a critical.
The rules section is always good for a laugh.
Saying a +1 or +3 is the same as Flaming Burst is the most desperate and illogical reading possible. One happens all the time, the other has a special condition that is only met with the confirmation of a critical. There is no debate to be had.
Just let it go.
Just let it go.
I was sort of in the process of laying out a logical argument as clearly and simply as possible, in the name of civil discourse. Giving people the benefit of the doubt and makingan honest attempt at mutual understanding, etc.
If that fails, I have better things to do than talk in circles. But until then, I'll have a conversation in good faith. It's taken little enough effort so far.
So don't argue with a bunch of people. You don't have to respond to everyone. I ask again:
Second question: as you agree that the flaming burst enchantment has an additional effect on a successful critical hit, would it be fair to say that the enchantment is related to critical hits?
At 14th level, the Barbarian is probably encountering a high percentage of enemies that are flat immune to critical hits... and he probably doesn't have the Knowledge skills to know. So this measly potion shouldn't be wrecking encounters whether the Barbarian has Improved Critical, or not.
It's a good value for what it does, but it also shouldn't be available in every dinky shop. As mentioned, how many Paladins retire into the traveling potion merchant business?
It's not just the 50gp; you also have to spend time applying it, which is a poor use of in-combat actions unless you're facing DR/Good.
So it's excellent value, as long as you're a high level martial PC with a good crit range who knows a battle against a crittable enemy is coming up in the next minute.
But it's true that Paladin spells aren't always well balanced as potions. For example, a Paladin with the Brew Potion feat can make potions of Lesser Restoration for 25gp each. That would cost 300gp in a shop, assuming it was made by a non-Paladin.
It's a good value for what it does, but it also shouldn't be available in every dinky shop.
And yet, by RAW, most settlements have them for sale, even those with a population below 20...
The 14th level barbarian is also giving up at least one or more rounds of full attack, and probably cannot rage while doing so. Applying an oil also provokes an AoO if I am not mistaken. So chances are the barbarian will want to be well away from any enemy and need to pull the oil out and apply it. On his next move he can probably move up and attack. If he does not have a way to full attack and move that means he only gets one attack. During the round he is applying the oil he does not get any benefit from rage including the bonus to will saves so it is quite possible he may be taken out of the combat before he gets a chance to actually use the oil. I am not saying he will be, but rather it is possible.
As I said from the first: potions suck. This one's better than the others.
That's a good thing, then. A step in the right direction, at least.
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flaming burst does 1d6 on a normal hit what do you mean it doesn't do damage unless you crit? it just gets a higher dice, it even calls out it works differently with higher multipliers. its not a "crit effect" like keen or vorpal any more than +1 bonus is a crit effect.
Flaming burst does 1d6 fire damage on a normal hit. It still does that 1d6 damage on a critical hit, plus 1+ 1d10 fire damage, depending on the weapon critical multiplier.
In addition to the extra fire damage from the flaming ability (see above), a flaming burst weapon deals an extra 1d10 points of fire damage on a successful critical hit. If the weapon's critical multiplier is ×3, add an extra 2d10 points of fire damage instead, and if the multiplier is ×4, add an extra 3d10 points of fire damage.
So:
1) the burst part doesn't do any damage unless you make a confirmed critical;2) You don't get a higher dice, you get one or more additional dices when you make a critical.
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vhok's argument seems to be that flaming burst has an effect on every hit, not just on a critical.that was my point but it hardly matters enough to argue with a bunch of people online, i've never even seen someone use flaming burst so i doubt this situation would ever arise. i'm moving on.
I will not buy a weapon with an energy burst (especially not flaming burst), but I have used the different variants plenty of times when playing a magus. When you have a weapon that is already +5, keen (or you have improved critical) and you have 2 enhancement points to spare, adding a bit of energy damage is better than nothing.
Holy/Unholy cost the same +2, so generally when buying a weapon that is what I would choose.
When you have a shadowdancer (me) that is really good at giving you some advanced notice about dangers ahead, there's no round wasted - you go in prepped.
So...you spent resources getting good at a specific skill set, which allows you to make intelligent decisions with tangible rewards?
...awesome. That's not broken, that's just plain ol' good gaming strategy.Potions. Are. Not. Good. I wouldn't worry about this one being better.