Devils / Fiends


Rules Discussion


In PF2:

Devils are 'made'.
Do they have a soul?
Meaning, can people cast a ressurection on the once body of the soul that the devil was made out of....and thus destroy the devil?


If any creature that, lore wise, is made from the soul of a living creature could be destroyed by returning that soul to life it would state that explicitly in the stat block of the creature in question.

As for why this doesn't work, the answer is as simple as that you cannot normally return the dead to life if their soul is not willing to return - a soul having turned into a fiend seems a definite "I don't wanna go back." case.


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Once a soul becomes a petitioner, it can no longer be resurrected.


What GM OfAnything said. Mortals can be resurrected only for as long as their soul waits for the judgement. Once a soul lands in Hell (because of Pharasma's judgement) or because the mortal was sacrificed in a special ritual it becomes a petitioner and can no longer be resurrected. There is another way to transform a petitioner back into a mortal (spell Judgement Undone) but if the soul has been processed and made a part of a devil, even this method is unavailable. At this point, possibly only an intervention of a deity can bring back the mortal, and seeing the deities can do that even if the soul of a mortal was destroyed (for example consumed by daemons), my suspicion is that this divine intervention just creates a soul identical to the original (so it wouldn't affect the devil).


Hearkening back to first edition, True Resurrection was basically the most powerful spell for resurrecting someone (as far as I know). It could in theory resurrect someone who had been dead up to 200 years. So under normal circumstances it seems reasonable to assume judgement takes more than 200 years, as once a petitioner soul is judge it goes to the next plane and the petitioner will (in time) transforms into an outsider of the appropriate kind (or be consumed, daemons). In either case, I would say the soul no longer exists at that point and cannot be restored.

Liberty's Edge

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Claxon wrote:
So under normal circumstances it seems reasonable to assume judgement takes more than 200 years, as once a petitioner soul is judge it goes to the next plane and the petitioner will (in time) transforms into an outsider of the appropriate kind (or be consumed, daemons).

Actually this is where Pharasma's role as Goddess of Prophecy comes in. She can, even in the Age of Lost Omens, accurately predict whether someone might ever cast True Resurrection on a person, and only those who it's a possibility for take that long. Ditto Resurrection, really. Most people are probably judged after the time limit on Raise Dead has elapsed rather than the longer periods.

The analysis of what happens then is, of course, entirely accurate. They get made into Outsiders and are unavailable for resurrection magics thereafter.


Yeah, there not a consistent time frame for traversing the River of Souls and being judged, so it can vary significantly.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Claxon wrote:
So under normal circumstances it seems reasonable to assume judgement takes more than 200 years, as once a petitioner soul is judge it goes to the next plane and the petitioner will (in time) transforms into an outsider of the appropriate kind (or be consumed, daemons).

Actually this is where Pharasma's role as Goddess of Prophecy comes in. She can, even in the Age of Lost Omens, accurately predict whether someone might ever cast True Resurrection on a person, and only those who it's a possibility for take that long. Ditto Resurrection, really. Most people are probably judged after the time limit on Raise Dead has elapsed rather than the longer periods.

The analysis of what happens then is, of course, entirely accurate. They get made into Outsiders and are unavailable for resurrection magics thereafter.

I guess that's fair, but I like the idea of people essentially queuing in line for hundreds of years just to be sent to Hell.

Liberty's Edge

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Claxon wrote:
I guess that's fair, but I like the idea of people essentially queuing in line for hundreds of years just to be sent to Hell.

That still totally happens, it's just not a universal experience.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Claxon wrote:
I guess that's fair, but I like the idea of people essentially queuing in line for hundreds of years just to be sent to Hell.
That still totally happens, it's just not a universal experience.

I'd say that's a multiversal experience.

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