Creative Director
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I like the idea of a werecreature AP. It’s an obvious box of tropes and i’m unsure why it hasn’t been done before now.
Because even though we've been doing Adventure Paths for decades, there's still plenty of untold stories to come. We can't do them all at once, plus also the it depends on the developer's interests to a certain extent as well when their "turn at bat" comes up for outlining an Adventure Path.
Both the werecreature-themed Adventure Path and the Nature vs. Civilization options intrigue me though, but there are others I'm also intrigued by that help to keep those on the back burner.
ALL THAT SAID Keep these requests coming, folks! We'll never do all of them, but we will do some of them!
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I'm still hungry for the "tiny Kingmaker" experience of building a settlement up from almost nothing.
I'm still hungry for the "tiny Kingmaker" experience of building a settlement up from almost nothing.
I quite like that idea. I wonder where might be the most interesting to do this?
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I'm still hungry for the "tiny Kingmaker" experience of building a settlement up from almost nothing.I quite like that idea. I wonder where might be the most interesting to do this?
Well, you'd probably want to avoid the River Kingdoms, so not to step on Kingmaker's toes. But I don't think there's a whole lot of other "Wild Frontiers" in the setting, aside from maybe Azlant, which has been done a couple times already.
If you wanna stay relatively small, I could see setting up a new Point Of Light somewhere in Varisia. Maybe a new settlement in the deserts of Kelesh or in the Grass Sea of Casmaron.
If you want to go for a "little fish in a very big pond" vibe, I could also see running a trading or research post out in the Vlashmai Jungle -- Kaiju thundering just past -- or even setting up communities in the newly emerged Elemental Planes of Wood or Metal.
I'm still hungry for the "tiny Kingmaker" experience of building a settlement up from almost nothing.I quite like that idea. I wonder where might be the most interesting to do this?Well, you'd probably want to avoid the River Kingdoms, so not to step on Kingmaker's toes. But I don't think there's a whole lot of other "Wild Frontiers" in the setting, aside from maybe Azlant, which has been done a couple times already.
If you wanna stay relatively small, I could see setting up a new Point Of Light somewhere in Varisia. Maybe a new settlement in the deserts of Kelesh or in the Grass Sea of Casmaron.
If you want to go for a "little fish in a very big pond" vibe, I could also see running a trading or research post out in the Vlashmai Jungle -- Kaiju thundering just past -- or even setting up communities in the newly emerged Elemental Planes of Wood or Metal.
Or a nation needs a new settlement build somewhere for some reasons.
and/or "but you were supposed to only build a watch tower and a tiny barracks."
I'm still hungry for the "tiny Kingmaker" experience of building a settlement up from almost nothing.I quite like that idea. I wonder where might be the most interesting to do this?
Make it part of the Arcadia/Deadshot Lands adventure path that may eventually get published?
Personally, I'd like to see that AP start at 6th level (maybe 5th) so a PC that chooses to do so can start with the Beast Gunner Dedication (or the first chapter includes the ritual hunt to qualify/provide experience to advance to 6th level).
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I feel Sarkoris would be perfect for this.
Sarkoris has always been where I've wanted it, yeah!
There's still cultists and demons to fight, but you also need to work just as hard at purifying the land, un-desecrating native holy sites, and building up new structures.
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Also to shift/hijack the conversation, I'd love to plane hopping but to the pathfinder-exclusive planes. I have a good idea to expect in places like axis, heaven etc. But Leng, the dimension of time, the realm of mirrors refrenced in dark archives? Spending a whole book in one of these places would be really cool.
They're not exactly "Golarion exclusive" Planes, but I reckon you could do a cool adventure with the First World, Universe, and Netherworld. Lean into the whole mirrors thing, and explore the "same" place but in each plane. Like, maybe your safe base location is a fey court in the First World, a bustling town in the Universe, and pyramid-fortress captured by fetchlings from sakhil in the Netherworld.
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I feel Sarkoris would be perfect for this.Sarkoris has always been where I've wanted it, yeah!
There's still cultists and demons to fight, but you also need to work just as hard at purifying the land, un-desecrating native holy sites, and building up new structures.
I'm inclined to favor it as Water Lords of Ular Kel. The Caravan City seems like it could have a ST:DS9 vibe.
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I think it'd be a long time before we revisit it, and doing it too early might feel too similar to some aspects of Hellbreakers, but I would love a political Romance in a post-godsrain Shenmen / surrounding area.
Like, go full Romance of The Three Kingdoms on that shit, with "bandit" / petty warlord / liberatory groups, regional powers, local pacts, the different jorogumo factions, gloom warders, the literal spectres of the old regime etc. We've got such a good baseline of groups and factions and potential loci spelled out across LO:TXWG and SoG...
then you throw the effects of godsrain, and the chekov's gun of the gossamer mountain kaiju, Igroon the Dragon Eater into the equation and you've got a ripe power keg ready to burst.
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Sailing stuff! Pirates, privateers, and sailors alike. combat and adventures in, around, and under water. There are SO many aquatic options in the game right now but almost no interaction with it from any of the adventure paths.
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I'm still hungry for the "tiny Kingmaker" experience of building a settlement up from almost nothing.
Yes please!
I would like to highlight one particular aspect—one that strikes me as entirely logical and natural, yet for some reason remains unexplored within this universe: the fact that Taldor draws its inspiration from Byzantium. The Senate, a guard composed of non-Vikings, and similar elements. Furthermore, it occurred to me that a storyline featuring chariot racing in a prominent role would be a perfect fit for this theme. This is, firstly, due to the historical rivalry between the Green and Blue chariot factions in Constantinople and the significant role this played in politics; and secondly, due to the potential for references to *Ben-Hur*—and perhaps to an even wider array of classic "peplum" films.
There's a chariot race in the PF1 Mummy Mask AP.
It was intense, with disturbing amounts of damage and chaos such that we were laughing at how fatal it must be for normal charioteers and their horses, much less us. Can't even recall if we won, just the carnage and impracticality of staging it.Would not recommend; unsure how one might balance the race aspects and its hazardous nature with single d20 rolls being perhaps too important.
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There's a chariot race in the PF1 Mummy Mask AP.
It was intense, with disturbing amounts of damage and chaos such that we were laughing at how fatal it must be for normal charioteers and their horses, much less us. Can't even recall if we won, just the carnage and impracticality of staging it.
Would not recommend; unsure how one might balance the race aspects and its hazardous nature with single d20 rolls being perhaps too important.
IDK, a chariot race sounds like the perfect opportunity to break out 2e's Skill Challenge rules, which have the significant advantage of not having been made up for one (1) AP book. Plus they're more accepting of consequences that aren't hit point damage.
Sailing stuff! Pirates, privateers, and sailors alike. combat and adventures in, around, and under water. There are SO many aquatic options in the game right now but almost no interaction with it from any of the adventure paths.
One of the ideas for an AP I had was remake of Skulls and Shackles but set in Minata in Tian Xia.
IDK, a chariot race sounds like the perfect opportunity to break out 2e's Skill Challenge rules, which have the significant advantage of not having been made up for one (1) AP book. Plus they're more accepting of consequences that aren't hit point damage.
There's a chariot race in the PF1 Mummy Mask AP.
It was intense, with disturbing amounts of damage and chaos such that we were laughing at how fatal it must be for normal charioteers and their horses, much less us. Can't even recall if we won, just the carnage and impracticality of staging it.
Would not recommend; unsure how one might balance the race aspects and its hazardous nature with single d20 rolls being perhaps too important.
My recommendation against was for using/adopting the Mummy's Mask version; too much nonsense. And note that there were ample non-violent skill challenges in that AP so they knew how to create those, just chose gore (oh, the poor horses!).
It'd be cool to see a more functional one, the type worth replaying as a mini-game even. I just don't see how one would balance it, and don't think PF2 skill challenges are all that different from late-game PF1 versions (though four levels of success makes PF2's more dynamic). Being as a party generally advances through challenges together, that would be kinda difficult in chariots with one or two characters.
What might be more conducive to party/RPG play would be a cross-country horse race (even if only to circle the city), maybe even on chariots since one could justify enough participants for the party to enter all the PCs. Who knows.
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Looking at the expected economics, we need a return to the Classic structure for an AP.
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Looking at the expected economics, we need a return to the Classic structure for an AP.
Meaning?
Looking at the expected economics, we need a return to the Classic structure for an AP.Meaning?
In the current economy, APs need to appeal to the largest possible audience.
So an AP (or two) needs to be aimed at people who are not already veteran Paizo players (and therefore are not tired of basic themes).| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Looking at the expected economics, we need a return to the Classic structure for an AP.Meaning?In the current economy, APs need to appeal to the largest possible audience.
So an AP (or two) needs to be aimed at people who are not already veteran Paizo players (and therefore are not tired of basic themes).
What makes you think that Paizo ain’t delivering on tried and true in addition to unique and unusual?
We have an entire line-up of adventures from beginners box to an AP that involves a popular setting: classical gothic horror. We have a dungeon crawl all about vampires, a rebel war story, these aren’t obscure settings or story types. If anything, they are a lil too conservative for my taste. Looking forward to Vaultlines.
People also generally don’t start table top RPG’s with pathfinder. They start with the world’s most popular table top rpg- which is so basic in setting and tone that we still have little idea of the lands beyond its equivalent of mediaeval europe.
There’s nothing wrong with saying you would prefer additional basic adventures but 1) they haven’t stopped and 2) why would we assume that the majority want only what is familiar to them already?
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IDK, a chariot race sounds like the perfect opportunity to break out 2e's Skill Challenge rules, which have the significant advantage of not having been made up for one (1) AP book. Plus they're more accepting of consequences that aren't hit point damage.
Agents of Edgewatch book 3 has an article about colosseum games and playing them out as Skill Challenges. Chariot Races are amongst the list and they basically run it using the Chase System IIRC.
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Looking at the expected economics, we need a return to the Classic structure for an AP.Meaning?In the current economy, APs need to appeal to the largest possible audience.
So an AP (or two) needs to be aimed at people who are not already veteran Paizo players (and therefore are not tired of basic themes).
One of last year's APs was "slay the demon lord in elf land." The current AP is "rebel against the evil empire," and the two after that are "explore the creepy haunted castle" and "go into the Legally Distinct Underdark."
I guess I'm not really seeing why those aren't "classic" d20 storylines.
Looking at the expected economics, we need a return to the Classic structure for an AP.Meaning?In the current economy, APs need to appeal to the largest possible audience.
So an AP (or two) needs to be aimed at people who are not already veteran Paizo players (and therefore are not tired of basic themes).What makes you think that Paizo ain’t delivering on tried and true in addition to unique and unusual?
We have an entire line-up of adventures from beginners box to an AP that involves a popular setting: classical gothic horror. We have a dungeon crawl all about vampires, a rebel war story, these aren’t obscure settings or story types. If anything, they are a lil too conservative for my taste. Looking forward to Vaultlines.
I have to agree with this. If classic adventure material is dungeon crawling, there is no shortage of dungeon crawling in adventure paths. Even settings that could have been rich for something new like Seven Dooms of Sandpoint, based at the port town of Sandpoint is just a bog standard mega-dungeon when it could have offered something unique like aquatic adventuring, on exploring lost islands or something.
The adventure path about vampires could have been a narrative focused campaign full of tense social encounters and intrigue and warring vampire factions, but it's a dungeon crawl.
Paizo is indeed being conservative. I don't fault them that from a business perspective, but from a creative perspective it leaves something to be desired.
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I mean, they've said outright that dungeon crawls sell well, but if you're complaining that they don't ever stretch creatively I'll remind you there's a whole high-level campaign about producing an opera.
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Lately I’ve been obsessing with the idea of a perilous, Kaiju jungle AP. The Valash Raj and Valashmai Jungle are perfect settings for a exploration meets ancient ruins meets giant monsters campaign.
We know very little about the Valashai Empire nor the Jade Hegemon Empire. It would be cool to cover an archeological campaign that involves making uncovering lost secrets, bonding with Kaiju, and making positive impacts with the Indigenous Peoples of the area.
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Definitely seconding exploration and archaeology with Kaiju thundering overhead, we're overdue for an open-world, venturing into the wilds campaign. Plus I could play Nagaji-Daniel Jackson From Stargate and that delights me suddenly.
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Lately I’ve been obsessing with the idea of a perilous, Kaiju jungle AP. The Valash Raj and Valashmai Jungle are perfect settings for a exploration meets ancient ruins meets giant monsters campaign.
We know very little about the Valashai Empire nor the Jade Hegemon Empire. It would be cool to cover an archeological campaign that involves making uncovering lost secrets, bonding with Kaiju, and making positive impacts with the Indigenous Peoples of the area.
Thinking of it, I feel an archeological campaign is extremely problematic due to the links to RL practices in the tomb-exploring/raiding field.
Now, on this theme, I could see 2 APs dealing with the same storyline.
In the first low-level (1-10) AP, you play participants to an archeological expedition that ends up disastrously by unleashing powerful destructive forces, say a Kaiju or three.
In the second high-level (11-20) AP, you play powerful heroes who have to keep in check and put down / put back to sleep said powerful destructive forces unleashed by foolish explorers.
These heroes could be the PCs of the first AP trying to stop the devastating consequences of their ill-advised expedition.
Or they could be local heroes who have to protect their people from what bumbling foolish foreigners who really should know better have unwittingly unleashed.
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Thinking of it, I feel an archeological campaign is extremely problematic due to the links to RL practices in the tomb-exploring/raiding field.
I disagree. The continued presence and focus on the pathfinder society in the game suggests that that Paizo still finds archaeological tropes to be a popular part of the game’s lore. Besides, the PC’s could always be hired/tasked by the jungle’s Indigenous Peoples to retrieve cultural artifacts and make safe the ruins for their preservation. The Valashai and Jade Hegamon Empires were colonial projects and their legacies do not neatly belong to anyone- though the descendants of their former slaves/servants have probably better claim than most. There also be some actually Indigenous Peoples (non-settled or People who aren’t descendants of forcibly settled Peoples) who have lived in the jungle since Time Immemorial too though, so it’s not clear who these ruins and relics should actually belong to as the former’s claim to the land is older.
The best way around these issues would be the PC’s cooperating with the jungle’s inhabitants and being rewarded by them with gold and supplies for retrieving artefacts and clearing the ruins of traps and monsters. This would allow the inhabitants to reclaim and preserve the ruins and maybe loan adventurers powerful artefacts in service to their cause further. Hell, it’s even likely that many the PC’s are the jungle’s residents themselves, and a smart Player’s Guide can encourage PC’s to be from the region (which means this could be a fun, mostly non-human campaign).
Now, on this theme, I could see 2 APs dealing with the same storyline.
In the first low-level (1-10) AP, you play participants to an archeological expedition that ends up disastrously by unleashing powerful destructive forces, say a Kaiju or three.
In the second high-level (11-20) AP, you play powerful heroes who have to keep in check and put down / put back to sleep said powerful destructive forces unleashed by foolish explorers.
These heroes could be the PCs of the first AP trying to stop the devastating consequences of their ill-advised expedition.
Or they could be local heroes who have to protect their people from what bumbling foolish foreigners who really should know better have unwittingly unleashed.
I like many of these ideas though I would caution against forcing players to build two groups of PC’s. That wasn’t very popular in Triumph of the Tusk, though it does work for anthology stories. edit: I didn’t see that you suggested this as two separate AP’s. I think I would prefer this as a single AP myself. I also don’t understand why this can’t be the same group of adventurers.
Why not just encourage the PC’s to play as a coalition venture organized by the region’s Indigenous (or by now looong-settled) Peoples? The Valash Raj and other formerly subjugated peoples are said to already have a connection with these ruins and view themselves as their inheritors.
Furthermore, those PC’s that aren’t local could be encouraged to build their characters in line with modern Archeological and Anthropological norms in mind, with full deference to local decision-making about the ruins and their ownership. The ancient artefacts would be trickier as you still want to reward the players with cool stuff, but these again could be loaned by the region’s inhabitants to help the PC’s finish their mission, or respectfully exchanged back to the region’s communities for magical items and supplies that their regional backers have created/cataloged themselves.
TLDR, there are ways around the problematic themes you have identified that I think can preserve the archaeological fun of discovery.
Thinking of it, I feel an archeological campaign is extremely problematic due to the links to RL practices in the tomb-exploring/raiding field.
Pathfinder APs usually have little problems with tomb raiding, granted, there are quite a few in verse reasons to be careful with that.