Help with a Half-Orc Warpriest Archer

[Dreadmad]

Hi guys, first of all - apologies if this is the wrong place to post this. I'm looking for some fresh eyes on my potential Warpriest Archer since I'm a reasonably new player. Starting at level 7, with level 6 gold. Stats are 17/16/15/14/13/12 as long as we write a backstory.

Half Orc, either 6 Warpriest [Arsenal Chaplain]/1 Hunter [Feral Hunter] or straight Warpriest.

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Race: Half-Orc (Bestial, Sacred Tattoos, Shamans Apprentice).

Alignment: Lawful Good

Deity: Erastil.

Class: Hunter 1 [Feral Hunter]/Warpriest 6+ [Arsenal Chaplain]

Attributes: 16/17(20)/14/13/15/12

Traits: Fates Favoured, Deadeye Bowman

1 - Weapon Focus, Orc Hornbow (Bonus Feat, Warpriest)

1 - Point Blank Shot

3 - Precise Shot

3 - Rapid Shot (Bonus Feat, Warpriest)

5 - *Decisions to be made*

6 - Manyshot (Bonus Feat, Warpriest)

6 - Weapon Specialisation, Orc Hornbow (Bonus Feat, Human Favoured Class Bonus)

7 - Deadly Aim

7 - (Single level of Feral Hunter): Bull for the +2 to strength until I can afford a belt, then changing to Mouse for Evasion afterwards. Spells known: Gravity Bow and Aspect of the Falcon.

*Level 5 Choice: I'm torn here between Keen Scent & using Pheromone Arrows to get an untyped +2/+2 on all attacks Vs marked targets or taking Additional Traits to take Magical Knack [Hunter] & either Reactionary or Finish the Fight. Honestly, with all the additional feats I will be getting (7 through Warpriest, 3 through the Warpriest Favoured Class Bonus) I could probably afford to take both.

Gear (Budget, 16000GP) :

• +1 Orc Hornbow (+4 STR) = 2830GP

• +2 Belt of Incredible Dex = 4000GP

• Handy Haversack = 2000GP

• +1 Buckler = 1305GP

• +1 Mithral Shirt = 2100GP

This leaves me just shy of 4k to buy Arrows for specific DR and other essentials (suggestions welcome!)

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I guess there's a few things I want opinions on mostly;

1: Hunter dip, Yay or Nay? In return for slowing my BAB & Divine Power progress by 1 level I get 2 castings of Gravity Bow/Aspect of the Falcon (for 3 mins if I take trait support) alongside a free +2 STR and some nice roleplay hooks for my less than house trained Half-Orc. Oh, and a nice competence bonus 1 min/day if I need to climb/perceive etc.

2: If yes, is it worth burning a feat to pick up Magical Knack to get 3 mins on by 2 Hunter spells a day? Or will 1 minute be enough?

3: Keen Senses worthwhile? It seems like a no brainer as long as I'm shooting more than 1 arrow at a target.

4: Erestil's Blessing would let me attack with WIS instead of Dex. If I was doing this I would drop Dex, Pump WIS and wear heavier armour (probably full plate?) Better Will Saves (worse Reflex though), more spell slots, better DC on any control spells I take, cheaper to hear for stat wise (+4 in DEX & STR is 40000 Vs only 32000 for STR & WIS)

This would however cost 2 more feats (Weapon Focus, Longbow as a prerequisite and the Erestil's Blessing feat itself) - so I'm not sure how worthwhile that would be.

Opinions welcome!

[avr]

As an archer you can't really dump Dex. There's too many feats which need it - manyshot needs Dex 17. And as you've noticed archery takes a lot of feats.

Not quite as many as you're spending though because warpriests only get the full BAB, fighter level for prereqs on their class bonus feats. They can't pick up weapon spec with any others - and if you're saying the FCB adds to the class feature, then you can only start taking it at level 3 when you get that class feature. Class feature or taking the FCB from level 1, pick one when you make your argument.

The hunter dip isn't optimal, but it only hurts a little - if you like the RP, sure, take it. 1 min spell duration is probably fine, especially since you'll be getting longer duration warpriest spells soon enough.

Scent has a very limited range. If the target is out of the range of your scent then pheromone arrows probably don't work.

[Dreadmad]

avr wrote:

As an archer you can't really dump Dex. There's too many feats which need it - manyshot needs Dex 17. And as you've noticed archery takes a lot of feats.

Makes sense, I'd missed that - on top of the Feat tax it makes it a lot less appealing.

Quote:

They can't pick up weapon spec with any others - and if you're saying the FCB adds to the class feature, then you can only start taking it at level 3 when you get that class feature. Class feature or taking the FCB from level 1, pick one when you make your argument.

So just to be clear, do you mean I can't use the Human Favoured Class Bonus (+1/6th of a bonus feat) until level 3 when I get the first bonus feat (so I get the first extra feat at Warpriest 8) or that I can't pick up the feats as if my level was my BAB/have a fighter level with the bonus feats (at 6/12/18)?

Quote:

Scent has a very limited range. If the target is out of the range of your scent then pheromone arrows probably don't work.

Ahh! I figured there must be some downside to it I was missing! Maybe if end up doing a shorter ranged Bolt Ace or something.

[avr]

Personally I think the human warpriest FCB only gives you combat feats (not as full BAB/fighter levels), but it can be picked up from level 1. You could make an argument for the opposite though.

[Java Man]

For the hunter dip: forester hunter is slightly better than feral, for one minute per day you can manifest 2 animal focus aspects.

[PhD. Okkam]

6 Warpriest [Arsenal Chaplain]/1 Medium[Medium of the Master] - very cool

[Dreadmad]

Ok, so understanding the bonus feats better I think I'm better off not taking them - and using the extra Skill Point per level since Warpriest is so starved for Skill Points [Edit: I realised as I was typing this up this was a dumb point, I should just rearrange my feats so I can take "Cunning" for the same effect and have 2 extra bonus feats down the line. Leaving this in, as if I mess up my feat allocation this is why.]

Starting at 7, but I've pathed out the whole build for critique & later use.

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Race: Half-Orc (Bestial, Sacred Tattoos, Shamans Apprentice).

Alignment: Lawful Good

Deity: Erastil.

Class: Hunter 1 [Feral Hunter]/Warpriest 6+ [Arsenal Chaplain]

Attributes: 16/17(20)/14/13/15/12

Traits: Fates Favoured, Deadeye Bowman

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1 - Weapon Focus, Orc Hornbow (Class Feat, Warpriest 1)
1 - Point Blank Shot
3 - Precise Shot
3 - Rapid Shot (Bonus Feat, Warpriest 3)
5 - Cunning
6 - Manyshot (Bonus Feat, Warpriest 6)
6 - Deadly Aim (Bonus Feat, Human Favoured Class [Warpriest 6])
7 - *Flavour Feat, TBD* [1 Level of Hunter here]
9 - Clustered Shots
10 - Greater Weapon Focus (Bonus Feat, Warpriest 9)
11 - Snap Shots
13 - Improved Critical
13 - Improved Precise Shot (Bonus Feat, Warpriest 12)
13 - Combat Reflexes (Bonus Feat, Human Favoured Class [Warpriest 12])
15 - Improved Snap Shot
16 - Weapon Specialisation, Orc Hornbow (Bonus Feat, Warpriest 15)
17 - Point Blank Master
19 - *Undecided*
19 - Greater Weapon Specialisation (Bonus Feat, Warpriest 18)
19 - *Undecided* (Bonus Feat, Human Favoured Class [Warpriest 18])

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Gear (Budget, 16000GP) :

• +2 Orc Hornbow (+4 STR) = 8830GP

• +2 Belt of Incredible Dex = 4000GP

• Buckler = 5GP

• +1 Mithral Shirt = 2100GP

I have roughly 1K left for DR specific arrows & other misc adventuring gear. I'll definitely be looking to buy a Handy Haversack ASAP.
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Firstly, have I missed anything for a Bow Warpriest I really should include?

Secondly, given I have a couple of spare feats (and I could drop Snap Shots/Improved Snap Shots) is it realistic to build a Switch Hitter here? Or should I just commit to being a ranged build.

As for my "Flavour Feat" at 7 I have a couple of indecisions. I'm considering taking "Additional Traits" as a feat and picking up Trap Finder as long as my DM allows as our party is lacking a dedicated Rogue. Alongside that I'd likely pick up Magical Knack [Hunter], Reactionary or Finish The Fight. Is there anything here that could be more beneficial?

[DthKnell]

If you go for Feral Hunter, you should definitely consider Planar Focus. The additional options this feat gives are golden - Bury and swim speed, natural armor, untyped bonus on stealth and defensive abilities according to your alignment. Pretty nice when you think about it.

[JiaYou]

Since you're level 7, you're an experienced adventurer. It would potentially make sense that you've ironed out some of the rougher edges, so Urban Barbarian would be a good fit. You still get good class skills, modified Rage that you can put towards bumping Dex or Con or Str, and an extra point of BAB on top of that. For comparison, Gravity Bow gives you an average of +3.5 damage two times a day at most (not accounting for wands). You're ALSO giving up the chance to use level 3 spells from the start and already making yourself think about buying Additional Traits to claw those deficits back.

If you still go Hunter, you're already going to be putting a ton of lead on target as an archer, so you'd arguably be better off putting any animal foci into bumping your Dex (and then just take the 4k gp and buy other items).

Plus, you can only use Animal Focus for 1 minute per Hunter level, not Hunter caster level, meaning for one minute a day you can maximize the benefit of that +4 STR Hornbow, and the rest of the time you're actually at a -1 to hit from normal because you'll be at 16 STR. Deadly Aim is also strong, but at Level 6 you're looking at -2 AB for +4 damage while Weapon Specialization (Orc Hornbow) is +2 damage without losing any attack bonus. Level 7 feat is where Deadly Aim should go, since you can't actually take Weapon Specialization anywhere else (it's definitely an extra combat feat you're gaining).

Little detail: Bucklers as far as I know don't give you the AC bonus while you're wielding a bow. So if you plan on pulling out another weapon then they make sense, but otherwise are just an extra -1 to your armor check penalty since you didn't specify a masterwork one.

[Dreadmad]

JiaYou wrote:

Since you're level 7, you're an experienced adventurer. It would potentially make sense that you've ironed out some of the rougher edges, so Urban Barbarian would be a good fit.

Are you suggesting I take a 1 level dip in Urban Barbarian, or just fully go that route? A 1 level dip doesn't seem very appealing, I'd have a grand total of 6 rounds with a additional +4 to Dex. If anything, I may as well just dip Alchemist for a Mutagen or something.

Quote:

For comparison, Gravity Bow gives you an average of +3.5 damage two times a day at most (not accounting for wands). You're ALSO giving up the chance to use level 3 spells from the start and already making yourself think about buying Additional Traits to claw those deficits back.

Delaying level 3 spells by 1 level isn't a big deal, the Magical Knack trait is to boost the duration of the Hunter spells - nothing to do with the Warpriest ones.

Quote:

If you still go Hunter, you're already going to be putting a ton of lead on target as an archer, so you'd arguably be better off putting any animal foci into bumping your Dex (and then just take the 4k gp and buy other items).

Plus, you can only use Animal Focus for 1 minute per Hunter level, not Hunter caster level, meaning for one minute a day you can maximize the benefit of that +4 STR Hornbow, and the rest of the time you're actually at a -1 to hit from normal because you'll be at 16 STR.

If you don't have an animal companion (ala Forester/Feral Hunter) you get the Animal Foci permanently, so it's not time locked to 1 min/day. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean?

Quote:

Little detail: Bucklers as far as I know don't give you the AC bonus while you're wielding a bow. So if you plan on pulling out another weapon then they make sense, but otherwise are just an extra -1 to your armor check penalty since you didn't specify a masterwork one.

Thanks, I downgraded it from a +1 version to save GP and forgot about that. I'll spring the extra 300 for Masterwork.

[JiaYou]

To answer in order:

1) You can always take Extra Rage for 6 extra rounds; +1 BAB applies to all your attacks, not just ranged, while the Dex bonus does give you a skill bonus and Reflex save bonus (although if you Sacred Tattooed/Fate's Favored yourself your Reflex saves should be decent). Plus the Barb level will stack with a belt.

2) It's arguably a big deal that you're giving up 1/2 Level 3 Warpriest spell (and I think one level 1 or 2 spell) for two level 1 Hunter spells. For instance, Prayer adds a nice luck bonus to all your allies and debuffs foes (plus stacks with Fate's Favored).

3) You get the second animal focus as well, and that's the one that's only 1 minute. Was busy at work so didn't make myself clear.

Is what you're choosing bad? Eh not really. If you can keep track of all of the things then it's fine, it's just a decent amount of bookkeeping.

[Dreadmad]

Thanks for taking the time to elaborate!

1) This is true, although 12 rounds/day still isn't amazing and takes a feat either way. I'm thinking I'm going to take "Skilled" Half-Orc racial trait replacing darkvision, and use the animal focus to pick that up after I get an enhancement bonus to strength. Saves me taking Cunning for that skill rank every level!

2) We do monster 8 hour sessions so I'll only be at level 7 for a week or two. No big deal here. I'm starting with 5 level 1 and 4 level 2 spells with the WIS bonus spells, should be plenty!

3) Yeah, 1 min isn't ideal but it's a nice utility thing if I ever need it.

It's definitely not as good as straight Warpriest, but it suits flavour-wise (and lets me skill monkey a little to fill a role needed) and it doesn't seem like it will harm my progress much with how strong the overall build should be.

[zza ni]

try and get the Beaming special weapon for your bow. it goes super handy with the warpriest sacred weapon ability to increase the weapon enhancement. (i was going forgeprist and made my own weapon so i had it on an even higher bonus then most warpreist my level)

you will need to use 2 rounds of your daily sacred weapon ability (i do it at the start of the day, but you can just wait till combat if your low on rounds) one to activate the sacred weapon as swift action another to swift action activate the orbs (while your weapon is in increased enhancement mode for extra orbs) then for the rest of the day you'll have 10th cl searing light per enhancement to add when you use ur bow as free action at any target. this allow you to shoot some target and sear others.

if you only start it in combat to save rounds\day it can be used straight from the 2nd round.
1st round activate sacred weapon and shoot stuff with your increased bonus.
2nd round swift make orbs and then shoot stuff (again with increased bonus) and as free action sear things for 5d6\5d8\10d6\10d8 depend on target.
you can drop the sacred bonus rounds at 3rd round start and keep remaining rounds & orbs for suitable uses.

also a halo that surround you and is unleashed to char enemies? super cool ;)