I'm using a friends account for this thread since I have never bothered to make a Paizo account.
There are a few of us players starting a new campaign. We aren't complete noobs but we have only played fairly simple characters up until now. We are going to atttempt branching out into some complex stuff to learn this stuff as a group. The GM knows and is on board with this. We are basically just doing a short mini-campaign on fast forward just to learn this stuff.
So of the umpteen bajillion possibilities, we would like to narrow down some of these choices to reduce the learning curve a bit.
1) Hunter, Animal Companion to fight alongside:
1a) When I've seen them played they seem fairly fragile glass cannons. If you buy the gear, abilities, etc... to make them do a lot of damage, they seem to get taken out pretty easily. Or I've seen a couple of people use them as a high AC meat shield, but then they don't do all that much damage. Is that a fair assessment?
1b) If yes, which animals work best for either role?
2) Druid Wildshape for melee Combat:
2a) Since armor and weapons go poof when you wild shape, it again seems like it would make you fragile. Is that correct?
2b) Is the very expensive armor that stays with you when you wildshape worth the exorbitant cost? If not, which gear should be bought?
2c) Since the various polymorph spells seem to be primarily just limited on size, is there like a list of the best combat shape choices of each size for each creature type? For example; X123 is the best huge combat animal, Y456 is the best large vermin, Z789 is the best medium humanoid, etc... Anyone have something like that?
2d) Obviously changes a whole bunch if in non-standard environment. When you are in the air, are you better off as a big animal that flies or a much smaller air elemental? Same question for underwater?
3) Magus spell combat.
3a) This whole thing is really confusing in the way it is written. Does the extra attack stack with haste? Am I reading this right that I can get itterative attacks, 2 touch spells, and an extra attack all in one round? That doesn't seem right.
3b) Does someone have a clear explanation, flow chart, or something?
3c) Can this work with mounted lance charge attacks? I know the scimitar crit-fisher is the standard. But we were thinking about a mounted charge first. Then drop the lance (really it should break) and draw the scimitar.
4) Summoned Creatures (Monster or Natures Ally)
4a) With the multiple bestiaries, the list of what could be summoned is pretty huge. Which ones tend to be most useful?
4b) Is it usually better to summon one of the highest level or a few of a lower level?
5) Combat Maneuvers
5a) Similar to the magus question, is there a flow chart or something to show a bit more clearly what you can and can't do?
5b) Grab / Grapple / Constrict, when does the constrict damage actually suppost to begin? I was told it is immediately after and in the same round as the successful attack that started the constrict. If that is true, aren't you better off to release and re-grab each round to get twice as much damage? That seems kinda stupid?
Thanks for any help with any of that big list!
*Rolls shoulders* Alright, let's rock.
1) Hunter, Animal Companion to fight alongside:
1a) When I've seen them played they seem fairly fragile glass cannons. If you buy the gear, abilities, etc... to make them do a lot of damage, they seem to get taken out pretty easily. Or I've seen a couple of people use them as a high AC meat shield, but then they don't do all that much damage. Is that a fair assessment?
1b) If yes, which animals work best for either role?
1a)It can be. Hunters can be rad since they actually have more support for their animal companion than most classes. They will always kind of be glass cannons as their defences don't scale all too well as you increase in level, but they are pretty tough 1-10.
1b)Big Cats are your classic pounce kill death machines. Grizzly Bears make tough walls of death with high con.
2) Druid Wildshape for melee Combat:
2a) Since armor and weapons go poof when you wild shape, it again seems like it would make you fragile. Is that correct?
2b) Is the very expensive armor that stays with you when you wildshape worth the exorbitant cost? If not, which gear should be bought?
2c) Since the various polymorph spells seem to be primarily just limited on size, is there like a list of the best combat shape choices of each size for each creature type? For example; X123 is the best huge combat animal, Y456 is the best large vermin, Z789 is the best medium humanoid, etc... Anyone have something like that?
2d) Obviously changes a whole bunch if in non-standard environment. When you are in the air, are you better off as a big animal that flies or a much smaller air elemental? Same question for underwater?
2a and 2b)Wild Armor. Wildshaping doesn't necessarily make you any less tough since Beastshape provides Natural Armor.
2c)A guide to the strongest Wildshaping forms.2d)Elementals are generally less efficient than animals.
3) Magus spell combat.
3a) This whole thing is really confusing in the way it is written. Does the extra attack stack with haste? Am I reading this right that I can get itterative attacks, 2 touch spells, and an extra attack all in one round? That doesn't seem right.
3b) Does someone have a clear explanation, flow chart, or something?
3c) Can this work with mounted lance charge attacks? I know the scimitar crit-fisher is the standard. But we were thinking about a mounted charge first. Then drop the lance (really it should break) and draw the scimitar.
3a/b)Think of it as Two Weapon Fighting but instead of making an offhand attack, you are casting a spell. If it is a Touch spell you can also spell strike it. So yes, it does stack with haste. You full attack and cast a spell and if that spell is a touch spell you can spell strike it.
An 8th Level Magus's routine looks something likeHaste Attack, Spellcast or Touch Spell Spellstrike, First Attack, Iterative Attack.
3c)No. Lance charges are incompatible with Spell Combat since Spell Combat is it's own special Full Round Action
4) Summoned Creatures (Monster or Natures Ally)
4a) With the multiple bestiaries, the list of what could be summoned is pretty huge. Which ones tend to be most useful?
4b) Is it usually better to summon one of the highest level or a few of a lower level?
Until you get Cats with pounce, it's usually best to summon the biggest thing you can or many creatures if someone in your party could really use a flanking bonus. Special shoutout to the small Earth Elemental. Hits pretty hard. for it's level. Summon Monster is a bit better than Nature's Ally since they can attach celestial/fiendish templates. Summon flying or swimming monsters as needed. Giant Spiders are a favorite of mine since Web is very useful.
5) Combat Maneuvers
5a) Similar to the magus question, is there a flow chart or something to show a bit more clearly what you can and can't do?
5b) Grab / Grapple / Constrict, when does the constrict damage actually suppost to begin? I was told it is immediately after and in the same round as the successful attack that started the constrict. If that is true, aren't you better off to release and re-grab each round to get twice as much damage? That seems kinda stupid?
5b)Immediately on a successful grapple check. Yes, releasing and regrabbing is stronger. Yes it is dumb.
If using wild shape with a consistent shape a suit of leather barding or if not a wand of mage armor (if someone in the party can use it) is an easy AC bonus.
A magus who wants to be mobile needs to learn the spell bladed dash. The synergy with spell combat and that spell is astonishing. In general Kurald Galain's magus guide may be helpful.
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Scavion I'm impressed. I'm only gonna try to tackle one of these.
3) Magus spell combat.
3a) This whole thing is really confusing in the way it is written. Does the extra attack stack with haste? Am I reading this right that I can get itterative attacks, 2 touch spells, and an extra attack all in one round? That doesn't seem right.
Yes it stacks with haste. No you don't get 2 spells in a round (unless you have Quicken Spell, or some way to cast one of them as a swift action).
3b) Does someone have a clear explanation, flow chart, or something?
As a matter of fact: GRICK'S GUIDE TO TOUCH SPELLS, SPELLSTRIKE AND SPELL COMBAT
3c) Can this work with mounted lance charge attacks? I know the scimitar crit-fisher is the standard. But we were thinking about a mounted charge first. Then drop the lance (really it should break) and draw the scimitar.
Spell Combat doesn't work with a charge, but Spellstrike does. So you could charge and deliver a spell as well as your lance damage, but you'd have to set it up:
Round 1 - Cast Touch spell.
Round 2 - Charge, delivering held touch spell with Spellstrike.
Round 3 - Pull out Scimitar and start attacking (if you have Quickdraw you could Spell Combat this round).
Read Grick's guide, it'll answer most of your questions. If you still have questions there's also KURALD GALAIN'S MAGUS GUIDE. That thread is still active and Kurald is a very helpful person.
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3) Magus spell combat.
3a) This whole thing is really confusing in the way it is written. Does the extra attack stack with haste? Am I reading this right that I can get itterative attacks, 2 touch spells, and an extra attack all in one round? That doesn't seem right.
Yes, it stacks with haste.
No, that's not right. You get iterative attacks, and one touch spell which IS the extra attack.3b) Does someone have a clear explanation, flow chart, or something?Essentially, you can do the following four things in your turn, in any order: (1) make all iterative attacks with your main weapon; (2) cast a spell; (3) use a swift action; and (4) take a 5' step. Mastering this is the key to playing an effective Magus.
3c) Can this work with mounted lance charge attacks? I know the scimitar crit-fisher is the standard. But we were thinking about a mounted charge first. Then drop the lance (really it should break) and draw the scimitar.
Yes. Spell combat requires a one-handed weapon, and a lance is one-handed while mounted.
Also, while scimitar crit fishing is indeed the most common build, you can also opt for e.g. bastard sword or waraxe (higher base damage, few crits) and instead of casting shocking grasp over and over and over again, you could instead cast self-buffs, or battlefield control, or some pretty nasty debuff stacks. The Magus excels at mobility as well as at combat maneuvers.
2c) Since the various polymorph spells seem to be primarily just limited on size, is there like a list of the best combat shape choices of each size for each creature type?
Scavion has already linked a guide, so I'll explain the basics a bit:
Natural attacks differ from manufactured weapon attacks in that you (usually can) get more of them at full attack bonus, but each one doesn't have as big a damage bonus. That means even more so then with manufactured weapons, if you want to deal good damage, you need to make a full attack, and to do that reliably, you need pounce.Since neither plants nor elementals have pounce, that makes those wild shape options pretty much useless for ground-based straight damage. Since there aren't many animals with pounce (ten in a size you could change into), the list is very distinct: Deinonychus for medium, Dire Tiger for large, Allosaurus for huge. Apart from some very specific builds (like that Druid archetype that lets you turn into an ooze), if you want to pick a land form to do damage, the biggest of these three you can turn into is the best.
The only real relevant other polmyorph spell line is Monstrous Physique, where the best creature is easily the Deathsnatcher. Well, there's also Yig, but expect to encounter a bunch of people who don't understand the polymorph rules and thus make unfounded claims that you can't turn into it, probably with foaming mouths.
4) Summoned Creatures (Monster or Natures Ally)
4a) With the multiple bestiaries, the list of what could be summoned is pretty huge. Which ones tend to be most useful?
4b) Is it usually better to summon one of the highest level or a few of a lower level?
Best read this guide for that. Vitally important (!) to using summoned creatures is to have the stat blocks ready (adjusted for feats like Augment Summoning as needed). Check out the sheets I made for my Summoner here for how I did it, these each are fitted for one page (with 0.5cm borders) and offer a variety of monsters (blocking, damage, flying, utility). I would suggest checking out the character cheat sheets in that link, too, especially for something like a WS Druid having the adjusted stats easily aviable is extremely helpful. Every character benefits from having such condensed character sheets, though.
Grab / Grapple / Constrict, when does the constrict damage actually suppost to begin? I was told it is immediately after and in the same round as the successful attack that started the constrict. If that is true, aren't you better off to release and re-grab each round to get twice as much damage? That seems kinda stupid?
Per this FAQ, yes. However, the rules seem to be written with the intend that only the once per turn mandatory check to mantain a grapple counts as a "grapple check", and not the initial attempt. Definitely ask your GM before you attempt any grab-release-shenanigans!
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Thanks guys!
The advice and guides have been really helpful. We are going through them and will probably be back with some more after we discuss this weekend.