Is This A Legal Charge?


Rules Questions


E=Enemy
A=Ally
1=PC starting position
2=Position PC is charging to

E2XXXXX
XXXXXXX
XXXXAXX
XXXA1XX
XXXXXXX

The question is, can you charge on a diagonal between two allies, one of which, on the grid map, is adjacent to you to the north and the other is adjacent to you to the west, and you are charging northwest, as it were? Or would the "If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that...contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge." rule prevent this?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

From what I see of your diagram, you are charging exactly at 45 degrees, so the straight line will not pass any of the allies squares, only the shared square vertice. That will make your charge a valid move.
If your target square was different (as an example the square south of the one you choose) the straight line would pass through one of the allies squares and make it an invalid charge.


The picture example in the book uses that exact situation as something that will block a charge

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
The picture example in the book uses that exact situation as something that will block a charge

In what page I can find that picture?

I have checked the PDF of the Combat section of the CRB and I don't see a picture example of a charge. There is a picture example of Tactical movement, but there is nothing useful in it.

The relevant text of the CRB says:

Quote:
If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge.

If we read "any line from your starting space" as a requirement to trace a line from every point of the starting square to every point of the destination square effectively it would not be possible to charge, as most of those lines will pass over occupied squares.


E=Enemy
A=Ally
1=PC starting position
2=Position PC is charging
to
EXXXXXX
X2XXXXX
XXXXAXX
XXXA1XX
XXXXXXX

Technically, you have to charge to "the closest space from which you can attack the opponent", which would be the 2 above. This would draw a line between 1 and 2 that passes through the A on the left, preventing the charge.

As a DM, you would not be unreasonable to allow the charge from the OP, but a player with a "high level of rules mastery" would be at a disadvantage due to rules uncertainty.


Charge wrote:
If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge.

The charge is not valid because there exists at least one line from 1 to 2 that pass through A.

Kitty Catoblepas wrote:

E=Enemy

A=Ally
1=PC starting position
2=Position PC is charging
to
EXXXXXX
X2XXXXX
XXXXAXX
XXXA1XX
XXXXXXX

Technically, you have to charge to "the closest space from which you can attack the opponent", which would be the 2 above. This would draw a line between 1 and 2 that passes through the A on the left, preventing the charge.

As a DM, you would not be unreasonable to allow the charge from the OP, but a player with a "high level of rules mastery" would be at a disadvantage due to rules uncertainty.

Both 2 squares are twenty feet away, so both are valid endpoints for the charge--or they would be if there weren't allies in the way.


blahpers wrote:


Both 2 squares are twenty feet away, so both are valid endpoints for the charge--or they would be if there weren't allies in the way.

Nope, you're right. Those are the same distance away due to diagonal measuring rules.

I take back my statement, and support the Valid Charge point of view.


Technically, if two places are equidistant on the charge you have to roll to randomly establish where the charge ends.


draw a line from the middle of your square to the middle of their sqaure, whichever square has most of line is the square you end up in. in this situation you would be diagonal from him if it was a legal charge which it is not as you cannot charge through your teammates.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Chrion wrote:
Technically, if two places are equidistant on the charge you have to roll to randomly establish where the charge ends.

Based on what?

Our PCs are thinking beings, why they shoud choose a random path when both paths are valid?


Diego Rossi wrote:
Chrion wrote:
Technically, if two places are equidistant on the charge you have to roll to randomly establish where the charge ends.

Based on what?

Our PCs are thinking beings, why they shoud choose a random path when both paths are valid?

I agree with you and it seems like a stupid rule to me, but pg. 193 of the CRB:

Closest Creature: When it’s important to determine the closest square or creature to a location, if two squares or creatures are equally close, randomly determine which one counts as closest by rolling a die.

I think this is supposed to simulate the "recklessness" of literally charging into combat.


Chrion wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Chrion wrote:
Technically, if two places are equidistant on the charge you have to roll to randomly establish where the charge ends.

Based on what?

Our PCs are thinking beings, why they shoud choose a random path when both paths are valid?

I agree with you and it seems like a stupid rule to me, but pg. 193 of the CRB:

Closest Creature: When it’s important to determine the closest square or creature to a location, if two squares or creatures are equally close, randomly determine which one counts as closest by rolling a die.

I think this is supposed to simulate the "recklessness" of literally charging into combat.

Pazuzu's coiled apparatus, I thought you were making a joke. Bahahahahaha!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Chrion wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Chrion wrote:
Technically, if two places are equidistant on the charge you have to roll to randomly establish where the charge ends.

Based on what?

Our PCs are thinking beings, why they should choose a random path when both paths are valid?

I agree with you and it seems like a stupid rule to me, but pg. 193 of the CRB:

Closest Creature: When it’s important to determine the closest square or creature to a location, if two squares or creatures are equally close, randomly determine which one counts as closest by rolling a die.

I think this is supposed to simulate the "recklessness" of literally charging into combat.

Seem counter-intuitive, but effectively that rule exists and it is appliable to a charge.


I'm not even sure how i feel about that

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