Paladin of Iomedae

Chrion's page

164 posts. Alias of James Pepe.


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Matthew Downie wrote:

Related question - how many concentration checks do you make if hit by magic missiles?

General consensus seems to be that you must make one check for each separate thing that damages you. However, with a spell that causes multiple projectiles to hit you, the projectile damage is combined into one.

This is a pretty good conversation about the topic. It's too bad it got muddled by Magic Missle. All three missiles hit simultaneously so even though you roll for each they all "impact" at the same time, thus the need for only one roll would make more sense.

Cevah wrote:
Chrion wrote:
But even you pass the check on everything but the roll of a 1, if you did really have to roll 40 times, chances are you are going to roll a 1 somewhere in those 40 rolls. In other words, even if the DC is low, having to make more rolls against it increases the chance of not passing, so if you are trying to stop an enemy spellcaster, it is beneficial to the players if the enemy has to make multiple rolls. On the other hand, having to pass one really hard check is also...really hard. So adding the ongoing damage together doesn't make things super easy either.

I do not see anything saying that rolling a 1 on a concentration check is a failure.

Nat 1 is auto fail on a save and on an attack, but I don't see it listed for concentration.


Right, I wasn't trying to argue that. What I meant was that, there are situations where you will beat a DC if you roll anything other than a one, but fail when you roll a one, not because it is a crit fail, but because it is the only number where your bonuses plus roll of a one wouldn't be enough to pass the DC.

Bumping this to hopefully get more eyes on it.

Java Man wrote:
Concentration checks also include your casting stat mod, so which makes that DC 11 an auto pass at around level 5 or 6.

Oops! Yes you are right. But, again, that is the easiest possible scenario.

Man I didn't realize my last post was just riddled with typos and i can't fix it now. Arg! Anyway...

blahpers wrote:
It's a little weird that taking 1 damage from each of 40 sources is trivial to concentrate through but taking 40 damage from one source is nearly impossible, though.

Even taking only one damage you would need to be pretty high level to make this an autopass. The lowest the DC can be is 11 if you are casting a 0 lvl spell. So to make this an automatic success you would have to have at least a caster level of 10. But even you pass the check on everything but the roll of a 1, if you did really have to roll 40 times, chances are you are going to roll a 1 somewhere in those 40 rolls. In other words, even if the DC is low, having to make more rolls against it increases the chance of not passing, so if you are trying to stop an enemy spellcaster, it is beneficial to the players if the enemy has to make multiple rolls. On the other hand, having to pass one really hard check is also...really hard. So adding the ongoing damage together doesn't make things super easy either.

Hopefully there is a real answer to this but if blahpers doesn't whom are we to turn?

What makes me thing you need to make four is because in the rules specify making a roll against a source, but it is somewhere ambiguous. It says:

If you are taking continuous damage...You must make a concentration check with a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the damage that the continuous source last dealt + the level of the spell you’re casting.

It seems like you could read this either way, but some clarification must have been made on this at some point.

Diego Rossi wrote:
Chrion wrote:
Technically, if two places are equidistant on the charge you have to roll to randomly establish where the charge ends.

Based on what?

Our PCs are thinking beings, why they shoud choose a random path when both paths are valid?

I agree with you and it seems like a stupid rule to me, but pg. 193 of the CRB:

Closest Creature: When it’s important to determine the closest square or creature to a location, if two squares or creatures are equally close, randomly determine which one counts as closest by rolling a die.

I think this is supposed to simulate the "recklessness" of literally charging into combat.

I'm sure this has been answered here before but I can't seem to find a thread that addresses this specifically.

So, you are a Wizard and you try to cast a spell. Unfortunately you are also on fire, bleeding, have magical acid on you, and you just took an attack of opportunity from someone standing next to you when you tried to cast. How many concentration checks do you have to make?

I think the answer is four, one for each ongoing effect and another for the AoO, but then again it might just be two, if you take all the ongoing effects together and then add in the AoO.

Technically, if two places are equidistant on the charge you have to roll to randomly establish where the charge ends.

1=PC starting position
2=Position PC is charging to


The question is, can you charge on a diagonal between two allies, one of which, on the grid map, is adjacent to you to the north and the other is adjacent to you to the west, and you are charging northwest, as it were? Or would the "If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that...contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge." rule prevent this?

It was annoying to me because the word "target" has a specific meaning within the rules which "designate" does not. But I might be mistaken about that.

The wording of the spell is annoyingly ambiguous. It doesn't use the word target but instead "designate".

If the person who cast spiritual ally cannot see an enemy, because they are in darkness, for example, and it wasn't the original enemy that the caster told the spiritual ally to attack, can the spiritual ally still attack it? How much awareness of the enemy does the caster need to have? What if they know the enemy is there but cant see them? What if the spiritual ally knows the enemy is there but the caster doesn't?

Thanks guys I really appreciate it.

Can you say why you say that?

Since gaining Channel Energy from different sources don't stack but basically give you two "pools" of channeling, how do other abilities that modify channel energy work? For example, if I take a level in Cleric and take the Sun Domain which says, "Undead do not add their channel resistance to their saves when you channel positive energy." and then I take enough levels in, say, Paladin, do get channel energy also, would the Sun Domain text apply only when I used my Cleric pool of channels and not my Paladin pool? Same question for feats, would I have to choose which pool the, say, Turn Undead feat applies to?

I'm about to start playing in a campaign in which we will be fighting almost exclusively undead. I play a lot of divine casters (just finished playing a pretty badass bad touch cleric) and don't really feel like playing a divine class. I know they can be super powerful against undead, but I'm looking for something different. What are some non-divine options that are interesting to play and can still bring the undead hate?

To be honest I was more interested in how it would affect the characters next turn. For example, if you take your turn and you use an immediate action when it is not your turn, when it comes around to your turn again, you don't get a swift action on your turn because you already used it, so to speak. I was wondering if there would be a similar case here. Presumably you wouldn't get your swift action for the same reason, but I was wondering if you would lose, say, a standard action, for example, because you are doing a full round action outside of your turn.

Counterspell Mastery (Su): At 6th level, you gain Improved Counterspell as a bonus feat. You may attempt to counterspell an opponent’s spell once per day as an immediate action (instead of a readied action). You must use a spell at least one level higher than the spell being countered to use this ability. You can use this ability once per day at 6th level, plus one additional time per day for every 4 levels beyond 6th.

I'm not sure if this is a rules question or an advice question, but here it goes. Let's say you are a spontaneous caster and you have taken your turn. You have an ability that lets you sometimes cast a spell that normally uses a standard action as an immediate action, that is to say, you are not casting it on your turn, but on someone else's turn. You cast your spell as an immediate action and you chose to add a metamagic feat to the spell, which makes the casting time a full round action. When does the spell go off? What happens when it comes back around to your turn again? Do you get a turn? Do you get a partial turn? Are you still casting the spell?

In other words, you don't actually need to be able to hear or see the person casting the spell, just the spells visual manifestations, in order to identify it.

Well, that's not quite how spell identification works. When you identify a spell you aren't looking at the person casting the spell but the "manifestations" of the spell which create an "obviously visual effect". Invisibility makes the person invisible, but since you aren't actually looking at the person to identify their spell, I don't know if you would still be able to identify it or not.

Does being invisible make it impossible for someone to identify a spell you are casting? My guess is that it does but I can't find anything that says it specifically.

The CRB says that using Supernatural Abilities are standard actions unless defined otherwise by the ability's description. The Counterspell School Disruption (Su) ability reads, "As a melee touch attack, you can place a disruptive field around the target." Does this count as "defining otherwise", so that any time a Wizard could make a touch attack they could use this ability? Or does it still take a standard action to use, so that it couldn't be used as part of, for example, an attack of opportunity?

I ended up using the Colour Out of Space and reskinning it a bit to make it look like the sword itself. It turned out to be kind of a weird fight because one of my players got really upset that, in the description I gave of the monster (not information the got from a knowledge roll, just my general description of what it looked like), I didn't convey to him that it would have a high touch AC. He, somewhat understandably, thought that it would be relatively easy to land a touch attack on a huge ooze, but when he tried and failed he got upset and blamed me for it. It was weird and I was somewhat taken aback by it. e/

...what sort of creature would it be?


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Nevermind, answered my own question I think. From the description of a Golem Manual, "Each manual also holds the prerequisite spells needed for a specific golem (although these spells can only be used to create a golem and cannot be copied)"

My players got their hands on a Behemoth Golem Manual. They want to know if they can use the spells in the book as if they were in any old spell book and copy them into their spell books or make scrolls of them. I can't find much information on the item so I don't know if it basically functions as a spell book or not. Any help would be appreciated.

Here is the item: -manual/

I'm sure someone has done something like this before, but I want to build a character that is tiny (if possible), rides a flying mount (like a butterfly, or something like that), and does charge lance attacks. Unfortunately, I don't really even know where to start with such a thing. I figure it will need to be a paladin or a cavalier. We have a 25 point buy and we are building a lvl 15 character. I don't mind bending strict RAW a little bit, but nothing too wild. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

My PC are coming up on lvl 10 and they are due for a pretty big payday. I want to make a great set of loot for them to find. I'm pretty new to DMing, and I've never really even played much around lvl 10 so I am just looking for some help. I want to give each of them at least one item specifically for them that they would really like. The party is: a Witch that does a lot of debuffing, a melee focused Dhampir Warpriest, a flame Oracle, a Magus, and a Cleric.

I agree. People in this thread have been saying that is what he is trying to do, but it's not. If the situation was different I think I would agree since if you make a nonlethal build you are going to come up against things that are immune once in a while. But again, given this specific situation, we're just trying to solve a problem in a fun, creative, and balanced way.

Like I said before, he is not looking to power game. The player came up with a personality for the character that goes well with the nonlethal damage build. He actually asked the DM before the campaign started if they were going to be seeing a lot of immune enemies and the DM said no. The DM, however, is very new to Pathfinder and TTRPGs in general and I don't think he realized how commonly they were going to be popping up in his game. So, the group is trying to find a middle ground so the player doesn't have to change his whole character around. I think a magic item is going to work well.

The other members of the party are an alchemist, a slayer, and a hunter.

Having thought about this now for a while, reading what people have posted here, and talking with some others, I think the best solution might be a magical item. Something like, "This item allows your nonlethal weapons to do lethal damage against creatures that are immune to nonlethal damage. When activated it allows you to do nonlethal damage against creatures that would normally be immune to nonlethal damage for X rounds or maybe minutes a day"

Before that we became entangled with a thieves guild of vampires, one of which was heavily implied to be a reoccurring BBEG.

PossibleCabbage wrote:
Isn't it just constructs and undead that are immune to nonlethal damage? Constructs aren't *that* common, so couldn't the player could just invest in something specifically to fight the undead and be okay?

We're currently in a city that is home to, and basically only populated by, a race of constructs >.<

I really appreciate everyone's responses, but they really haven't spoken to my original request.

Some of the options we have been thinking about have been:

Can do NL after a successful CMB check.

Can do NL when you would be able to get sneak attack damage.

Can do NL but always do minimum damage.

That being said, I think a creative solution would be best. Like I said earlier, it would be better if it was something more interesting than "you can do nonlethal to things that are immune to nonlethal".

PossibleCabbage and zza ni, thanks for the replies. Normally I would agree with both of you, but this situation is a little different. The player actually asked the DM about this build before the game started and whether they would be fighting a lot of things that would be immune to nonlethal and the DM told them there wouldn't be a disproportionate amount. But, I think because the DM is new to Pathfinder, and table top RPgs in general, he didn't realize how common nonlethal enemies would be in his game, so now we are trying to do damage control just so that the player doesn't have to rebuild the character mid-game.

The reason why it is important for them to be able to do nonlethal damage is because all of their combat abilities are based around that, making it pretty unfun for them to be in fights and it's throwing the balance of the party off because it basically makes a 4 PC party into a 3 PC party.

I'm looking for some help making a feat for a player to be able to do nonlethal damage to creatures that would otherwise be immune. I'm looking to do something a little more creative than just "You can now deal nonlethal damage to undead, constructs, etc." Sorry for such an open ended question, but I want to come up with something interesting and hopefully fun. The PC is playing a Sap Master build with and Unchained Thug\Scout Rogue. Thanks!

Wow. Thanks for taking the time to write all this up for me I really appreciate it. Are you sure transfer wounds can be used in combination with hammer how you describe it? Using transfer wounds is a standard action and using Hammer requires you to make a touch attack. I'm not sure you could do both at the same time, but I could be wrong.

These are great suggestions. Thanks a lot.

I'm building a Sadist Life Leech Soulthief Vitalist. I have never built, let alone played, a Psionic character before, so I don't even know where to start as far as the feats go. Any advice on what I should be looking for as far as feats are concerned would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks. Normally with PCs caster levels are usually the same as their character level or lower, so I didn't know how it worked with monsters.

I'm unsure how many rays this Efreeti would get on his scorching ray cast. He has 10 hit dice which would usually indicate that he is level 10 but he is also listed as having a caster level of 11. So, how many rays per cast does he get? Thanks.

I'm interested to find out if anyone has run Deep Carbon Observatory or tried to adapt it to Pathfinder and, if they have, how it went.

My PCs are part of a larger organization and, as such, I want to give them some benefits of being part of it. I want to give them discounts on items, scrolls, potions, etc., but I obviously don't want it to be game breaking. I find the more I fiddle with the balance of the game, the more I see how finely tuned it is. Anyway, my initial impulse was a 10% off the market price. Does this seem too high? Too low? Any advice would be welcome.

Secret Wizard wrote:
Action economy > big numbers.

Can you say more?

First, if any of my player happen to see this please don't read it.

I am running my PCs through the 3.5 version of White Plume Mountain and they are soon going to fight Ctenmiir, the dwarf vampire. The party is 4 lvl 7 PCs, made up of a Witch, Magus, Oracle, and a 1 Spiritualist\6 Occultist. Looking at the stat block for this guy I am worried he is going to kill them. Should I be worried? The module says to only "occasionally" use the energy drain. It also says that once he hits 10 hp or lower he should go into gaseous form and go into the next room (which has a big obstacle in it which will take the PCs time to cross) and heal. I appreciate any input or advice for running the encounter. Here are his stats:

Male dwarf vampire fighter 6

CE Medium undead (augmented humanoid, dwarf)

Init +8; Senses Listen +12, Spot +12

Languages Common, Dwarven

AC 26, touch 11, flat-footed 25; Dodge

hp 39 (6 HD); fast healing 5; DR 10/silver and magic

Immune ability drain, critical hits, energy drain,
mind-affecting effects, nonlethal damage, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, stunning

Resist cold 10, electricity 10; turn resistance +4

Fort +5, Ref +8, Will +4

Weakness vampire weaknesses

Speed 20 ft. (4 squares); climb 15 ft. (as spider climb)

Melee Whelm +13/+8 (1d8+12) or
Whelm +13/+8 (1d8+9) and
slam +6 (1d6+3 plus energy drain 2 negative levels)

Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.

Base Atk +6; Grp +12

Atk Options: Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Spring Attack,
Special Atk Blood drain, create spawn, dominate
(range 30 feet; Will DC 14 negates)

Combat Gear 2 potions of shield of faith +3

Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th):

At will—sense giants

Abilities Str 23, Dex 18, Con —, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 12

SQ alternate form, gaseous form, spider climb,
turn resistance +4

Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes,
Mobility, Power Attack, Spring Attack, Weapon
Focus (warhammer), Weapon Specialization

Skills: Bluff +9, Hide +5, Intimidate +10, Listen +12,
Move Silently +5, Ride +13, Sense Motive +10,
Spot +12

Possessions: combat gear plus Whelm, +1 full plate.

Blood Drain (Ex): Ctenmiir can suck blood from a living victim with his fangs by making asuccessful grapple check. If he pins the foe, he drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution
drain each round the pin is maintained. On
each such successful attack, Ctenmiir gains 5
temporary hit points.

Create Spawn (Su): A humanoid or monstrous
humanoid slain by Ctenmiir’s energy drain or
blood drain attack rises 1d4 days later as a
vampire or vampire spawn. See the vampire
entry in the Monster Manual for details.

Alternate Form (Su): Ctenmiir can assume the
shape of a bat, dire bat, wolf, or dire wolf as a
standard action. This ability is similar to a polymorph spell cast by a 12th-level character, except that Ctenmiir does not regain hit points for changing form and must choose from among
the forms mentioned here. While in his alternate
form, Ctenmiir loses his natural slam attack and
dominate ability, but he gains the natural weaponsand extraordinary special attacks of his new form. He can remain in that form until he
assumes another or until the next sunrise.

Fast Healing (Ex): Ctenmiir heals 5 points of
damage each round so long as he has at least
1 hit point. If reduced to 0 hit points in
combat, he automatically assumes gaseous
form and attempts to escape. He must reach
his coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly
destroyed. Any additional damage dealt to
Ctenmiir while he is in gaseous form has no
effect. Once at rest in his coffin, Ctenmiir is
helpless. He regains 1 hit point after 1 hour,
then is no longer helpless and resumes healing
at the rate of 5 hit points per round.

Gaseous Form (Su): As a standard action, Ctenmiir can assume gaseous form at will as the spell (caster level 5th), but he can remain gaseous indefinitely and has a fly speed of 20 feet with perfect maneuverability.

I think if I go the monk route I'll take Master of Many Styles so I can take Snake Style at first level. Also, I think I'd want to keep stunning fist even if I'd only get to use it once a day. I'd also then probably do Ecclesitheurge cleric.

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