| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Fun fact about the Harrow Deck: I love it. It’s one of my favorite tools to use in tabletop RPGs.
I’m curious to know if there are any plans for it in Second Edition? Also would anyone else like to see something more done with the Deck or am I alone?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I’d be glad to see it gone, because I loathe how much the Varisians are Romani stereotypes.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I’d be glad to see it gone, because I loathe how much the Varisians are Romani stereotypes.
That’s fair, but I think there’s still a place for it if they divorced it from being just a Varisian thing and simply focused on it being the setting equivalent of the Tarot deck.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm hoping for Deadly Dealer to make a come back and hopefully not be locked behind an archetype.
I agree with keftiu on the dislike for Romani stereotypes in the Varisians (even though JJ says they're a mix of a lot of influences, but I just see a bunch of Esmeraldas) - at the same time the Harrow should have the same place the tarot held irl, i.e. be used as playing cards and fortunetelling device by lots of people across the Inner Sea (I can totally see it used in Cheliax, Andoran, Taldor, etc).
Tbh I don't really remember the rules, but my neopagan player says she found it limiting and awkward compared to tarot. I hope the Harrow comes back, but possibly with the same broad, multiplicitous versatility as its rl inspiration.
|
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Tbh I don't really remember the rules, but my neopagan player says she found it limiting and awkward compared to tarot. I hope the Harrow comes back, but possibly with the same broad, multiplicitous versatility as its rl inspiration.
As a pagan who does occasional fortune telling stuff with tarot cards, I'd disagree with this. The Tarot deck is bigger, certainly, and thus inevitably slightly more complex, but the minor arcana are often a bit same-y in some ways. That's good for some things but less so with others.
Tarot has some history that the Harrow obviously doesn't in the real world, which means I'd always actually use it, but I don't think it inherently covers less territory.
The 'default reading' is a little limiting, but that's a limitation of only having one spread rather than of the deck. You could easily do any particular tarot spread (celtic cross, tetratkys, mandala, etc.) with Harrow cards and fix this particular problem.
It is also canonical that they're used for gambling as well as fortune telling, so that part is definitely covered.
As a pagan who does occasional fortune telling stuff with tarot cards, I'd disagree with this. The Tarot deck is bigger, certainly, and thus inevitably slightly more complex, but the minor arcana are often a bit same-y in some ways. That's good for some things but less so with others.
Tarot has some history that the Harrow obviously doesn't in the real world, which means I'd always actually use it, but I don't think it inherently covers less territory.
The 'default reading' is a little limiting, but that's a limitation of only having one spread rather than of the deck. You could easily do any particular tarot spread (celtic cross, tetratkys, mandala, etc.) with Harrow cards and fix this particular problem.
It is also canonical that they're used for gambling as well as fortune telling, so that part is definitely covered.
So the default reading is a bit limiting. That's what she said too, more or less. I must tell her to try different spreads then. Thank you DMW.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd like to see it come back. Always liked the artwork on it.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I agree with keftiu on the dislike for Romani stereotypes in the Varisians (even though JJ says they're a mix of a lot of influences, but I just see a bunch of Esmeraldas) - at the same time the Harrow should have the same place the tarot held irl, i.e. be used as playing cards and fortunetelling device by lots of people across the Inner Sea (I can totally see it used in Cheliax, Andoran, Taldor, etc).
Tbh I don't really remember the rules, but my neopagan player says she found it limiting and awkward compared to tarot. I hope the Harrow comes back, but possibly with the same broad, multiplicitous versatility as its rl inspiration.
I had to look up who Esmeralda is, found the errata to her story about her leg as well, which reminded me of something funny. I had a woodshop teacher in highschool first class of every year he started by going over woodshop safety, and as he's talking he's sharpening a chisel, then all of a sudden sticks it an inch deep into his calf, everyone screamed, then he pulls off his wooden leg and pulls the chisel out. He thought it was funny enough to destroy a pair of pants every year to scare his class. Another thing that caught my eye in Esmeralda's story is she fights with rapiers, as someone who has fenced for 30 years one thing I can tell you is that fencers love their secret tricks to catch someone off guard. If I was GM and someone attacking Esmeralda rolled a natural 1 I'd have their blade get stuck in her hidden Prosthetic leg, then give her an attack of opportunity because she likely would have planned it that way. No need to hide a Prosthetic, but there are times you might want to while vampire hunting or teaching woodshop.
I've never played pathfinder 1e and mostly homebrew so don't know much about the Varisians, but I think the harrow deck on its own is a great RP and storytelling tool. The deluxe version is still available. Before buying my harrow deck last week, I was researching it online and found someone on youtube that uses it exclusively outside of gaming for fortune-telling, they dint show them but talked about doing their own 3 card spreads. What I think makes the Harrow so versatile is the relationship of the dots on the card frame to the position of the layout of the spread. To make a new type of spread just change the labels on the spread grid.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Fun fact about the Harrow Deck: I love it. It’s one of my favorite tools to use in tabletop RPGs.
I’m curious to know if there are any plans for it in Second Edition? Also would anyone else like to see something more done with the Deck or am I alone?
Altho the deck is still available, would be nice if it was used in something in 2E to make it official in 2E. Got my Delux Harrow Deck in the mail 2 weeks ago, but haven't had a chance to use it in a game yet. Do you have any stories of how you have used it in games or had interesting things come of its use in game? I'm really impressed with the deck so far it's well thought out, it's actually good enough to do fortune-telling outside of the game.
|
|
Fun fact about the Harrow Deck: I love it. It’s one of my favorite tools to use in tabletop RPGs.
I’m curious to know if there are any plans for it in Second Edition? Also would anyone else like to see something more done with the Deck or am I alone?
Well first, Harrow Deck is nowadays still an item you can buy in 2e. Heck there is "Harrow Reader" npc in gamemastery guide.
Secondly, there is no real need to have "Harrow Deck physical prop for 2e" since it'd be basically same as in 1e, the harrow deck doesn't come with 1e specific rules really, it comes with explanation of how fortune telling with them works and few card games. Only reason to have "Harrow Deck 2e" would honestly just be reprinting if original harrow deck is out of print
Also uh, I think they meant Esmeralda, character from the Hunchback of Notre Dame, not Ezmerelda the vampire hunter.
|
|
I’d be glad to see it gone, because I loathe how much the Varisians are Romani stereotypes.
just speaking on the fortuneteller stereotype, there are websites owned by Romani writers talking about what occupations are not offensive to use when describing Romani or Romani-inspired cultures in fiction and RPG games they included horse traders metal/ironworkers, and fortune-tellers. There's another owned Romani site talking about Romani rights and issues that list anti-fortune-telling laws as being anti-Romani. Other websites talk about Romani people dominating the occupation of fortune-telling.
Some Romani people despise it use of the term Gypsy others embrace it, globally there are almost 1/2 a dozen terms different local Romani groups prefer to use. I think of it as a bit like pronouns use the term the person your talking to prefers. I have lived with people who prefer the term, Gypsy.
There are still groups in India whom the Romani are descendants of, who are still nomadic or semi-nomadic entertainers making their living largely by dancing and snake charming. There's even a movement in Inda trying to get the Indian government to recognize the Romani around the world as part of the Indian diaspora.
I happen to love gypsy punk music but I don't assume Gogol Bordello represents all Romani people any more than The Sex pistols represents all people from England, but Gogol Bordello could make a fun role model for some (not all) Bard characters.
So maybe the difference between a role model and a stereotype is where people see different cultural traits as either negative or positive.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I’d be glad to see it gone, because I loathe how much the Varisians are Romani stereotypes.Some Romani people despise it use of the term Gypsy others embrace it, globally there are almost 1/2 a dozen terms different local Romani groups prefer to use. I think of it as a bit like pronouns use the term the person your talking to prefers. I have lived with people who prefer the term, Gypsy.
What you are describing is quite literally a racial slur to those you freely admit "despise" it - and why I steer clear from using it. If people from a marginalized background choose to reclaim a term - or the stereotype of them as fortune-tellers, which is a romanticized, magical Other popularized by outsider accounts - they're welcome to.
But for those us who aren't part of that group? It's not our place, IMO.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Assault on Hunting Lodge Seven has "Legends of the Harrow" by Luis Loza.There was a whole article about the Harrow and its history in one of the Edgewatch books as wellDo you know which book I might buy that book just for the harrow references.
Thanks, I just bought the book and quickly read over its "Legends of the Harrow" by Luis Loza, looks like a great resource for anyone into the Harrow. One part I really liked was that he Included 4 Harrower NPC that is not your typical everyday fortuneteller. Also has a new HARROW-LED background.
It all so reference more types of harrow decks, such as the Arcadian harrow transformed into a wholly unique deck, focusing more on mythical archetypes, animals, and objects. An other refers to Duriana discovered a way to access the otherbeings trapped within the elementalist’s harrow deck. So that's 2 new decks of Harrow cards I'd like to own someday.
Indirectly part of this adventure could be seen as a distant sequel to the Harrowing as well.
The Arcadian Harrow stuff is really neat. There's a practitioner of the Harrow as both fortune-teller and fighting style on an Arcadian team in Fists of the Ruby Phoenix who's super cool.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Arcadian Harrow stuff is really neat. There's a practitioner of the Harrow as both fortune-teller and fighting style on an Arcadian team in Fists of the Ruby Phoenix who's super cool.
Now there's something else I want to buy... Glad to see Paizo diversifying the use of the Harrow decks it's just to the good of an RP tool to not have.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
romanticized
Taking this word out of context, but in a sense isn't everything in a TTRPG game romanticized, even the jobs of writing and developing the games.
Can't remember the name of it but there was a really good short film about a writer or artist that romanticized an earlier generation of artists and the art movement of that time. They find a way to travel back in time and meet up with all the artists they idolized only to realize these artists were themselves also romanticized earlier generations.
The Arcadian Harrow stuff is really neat. There's a practitioner of the Harrow as both fortune-teller and fighting style on an Arcadian team in Fists of the Ruby Phoenix who's super cool.Is there one book where that's it's mostly in or is it spread out of the 3 books?
The Biting Roses are in all three books, I believe.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just noticed There's a tool on pathfinder infinite for making cards for the pathfinder adventure card game. Which got me thinking wouldn't be cool if we had a tool like that for Harrow cards, there are several references to using or lost cards, and 2 other complete decks we have not seen yet, plus it would be cool to be able to make custom cards and be able to mix any of them into a deck.