
ImrielCMF |
Is there any place in the printed 2E rules that specifies which creature types are extraplanar? Shillelagh does extra damage against extraplanar creatures but I cannot find an official explanation of extraplanar. As a long time DM I know which creatures are extraplanar but new players might have some confusion. Seems like an oversight for a game that has neatly defined traits on just about everything.

Hiruma Kai |
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Is there any place in the printed 2E rules that specifies which creature types are extraplanar? Shillelagh does extra damage against extraplanar creatures but I cannot find an official explanation of extraplanar. As a long time DM I know which creatures are extraplanar but new players might have some confusion. Seems like an oversight for a game that has neatly defined traits on just about everything.
I think the issue is that a Devil on its home plane of Hell is not extraplanar. And in fact, a Pit Fiend could duplicate Shillelagh with Miracle (for example) and get to roll 3 dice against the players while in Hell, assuming none are native to Hell themselves.
I suppose they could have add a section on extraplanar in the Bestiary like they did in PF1, which describes how you gain and lose that trait.
The individual race traits (elemental, demon, devil, fiend, celestial, angel) in their description indicate which plane(s) that type of creature comes from. Devils from Hell, Demons from the Abyss, Fiends from evil aligned planes in general, Angels from Nirvana, Celestials from good aligned planes, and so on, so there's certainly some information for new players to go on.

Captain Morgan |
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ImrielCMF wrote:Is there any place in the printed 2E rules that specifies which creature types are extraplanar? Shillelagh does extra damage against extraplanar creatures but I cannot find an official explanation of extraplanar. As a long time DM I know which creatures are extraplanar but new players might have some confusion. Seems like an oversight for a game that has neatly defined traits on just about everything.I think the issue is that a Devil on its home plane of Hell is not extraplanar. And in fact, a Pit Fiend could duplicate Shillelagh with Miracle (for example) and get to roll 3 dice against the players while in Hell, assuming none are native to Hell themselves.
...That's an issue? A level 20 creature using its once per year spell to strike people with a piece of wood which does less damage dice any of its unarmed strikes? That is a point of concern to you?

Hiruma Kai |
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...That's an issue? A level 20 creature using its once per year spell to strike people with a piece of wood which does less damage dice any of its unarmed strikes? That is a point of concern to you?
Sorry, I was not very clear. The issue was with simply placing an extraplanar tag in general, not the Pit Fiend casting Shillelagh. A general listing of extraplanar creatures in the rules or even a simple trait can't possibly work.
Simply stating devils are extraplanar, for example, is wrong when on the plane of Hell. And players themselves might have the tag. Extraplanar is relative to where everyone is at the time. Applying and removing a trait all the time seems a tad silly, and potentially confusing.
I was trying to provide an instructive example of both in one and simply showing how the rules would work. I couldn't think of any extraplanar creature that could cast Shillelagh off the top of my head, and miracle happens to be able to duplicate the effects. I am not advocating that this is a likely occurrence in game, merely how the rules would be applied if it did.
So the current method of traits indicating the home plane is sufficient and direct enough for new players to figure out, or at least I think so.

Squiggit |

The trouble I think is that extraplanar is sometimes used specifically rather than relatively.
Stuff like Spiritual Anamnesis has a greater effect against "celestials, fiends, monitors and many other extraplanar creatures", not as a property of them being extraplanar but simply because of their nature as beings with multiple lives, Sod Hounds are just described generally as extraplanar canines. Cases like these seem to use the word to describe specific types of creatures rather than a relative state of being.
I agree that the 'thing not on its home plane' is the most logical and reasonable definition, but the fact that it's not actually explicitly defined in the rules strikes me as an odd omission and the way it's used in some of these examples I feel like could end up leading to confusion.