Suskillon's native sapient species


Attack of the Swarm


Starfinder Superscriber

I'm shocked that in the months since this was published nobody raised an alarm.

Fate of the Fifth, page 62 wrote:
Sapient life evolved on Suskillon millennia ago and has long since adapted to the planet’s unusual weather patterns. Humans make up the vast percentage of the population and have spread across the entirety of the planet.

Patrick Brennan and the editorial team that worked on this - I'm calling you on this incredibly sloppy phrasing.

Established in Reign of Winter, humans exist in other galaxies. Since this was published many of us tie this together with humans evolving on Earth and transported to Golarion somewhere toward the end of the prehistoric Age of Serpents. Once the gods and a reality warping chicken hut is in play, we can only respond with a nod and a shrug.

Since Starfinder is based on a fantasy setting we accept this, just as we accept that elves and orcs are both genetically compatible with humans and that elves arrived in the Pact Worlds through magical trans-galactic "elf gates". We can accept that dwarves were created through divine means using humans as a rough template, gnomes from a pre-reality dimension where imagination replaces the laws of physics, etc.

However, all humans in the Starfinder setting come from Golarion. Pact Worlds humans came directly from Golarion during the gap and Azlanti come from ancient Golarion during the Age of Legend. The humans of ancient Golarion arrived on that planet at some point after evolving sapience.

I could accept that the human natives of Suskillon have a trans-galactic origin separate from either pact worlds humans or azlanti humans. I can accept that pact world humans used an unknown means to settle Suskillon during the gap much like the humans of the Marixah Republic. But there is absolutely no way humans "evolved sapience" on Suskillon without rewriting the history of humans in Starfinder.

Any other species evolving sapience on Suskillon would have to be an entirely separate species and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, just give them funny forehead ridges and call them Suskillons.


Arc Riley wrote:

However, all humans in the Starfinder setting come from Golarion. Pact Worlds humans came directly from Golarion during the gap and Azlanti come from ancient Golarion during the Age of Legend. The humans of ancient Golarion arrived on that planet at some point after evolving sapience.

I could accept that the human natives of Suskillon have a trans-galactic origin separate from either pact worlds humans or azlanti humans. I can accept that pact world humans used an unknown means to settle Suskillon during the gap much like the humans of the Marixah Republic. But there is absolutely no way humans "evolved sapience" on Suskillon without rewriting the history of humans in Starfinder.

Any other species evolving sapience on Suskillon would have to be an entirely separate species and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, just give them funny forehead ridges and call them Suskillons.

This is not the lore I've picked up in the slightest. From everything I've absorbed, there are definitely forces at work that seem to have an interest in seeding planets with certain organism templates. I could not quite the source off the top of my head but I remember hearing that humans and several other races have a tendency to crop up on planets despite not being linked to other populations.

Whether this is a case of intelligent but uncreative design on the part of deities or an actual effort by some in-universe force to seed the universe with humans is a matter for debate. There is even a counter theory that the proliferation of four-armed humanoids with a somewhat comical skull is a deliberate effort by a force in opposition to the first.

Humans analogies are native to the planet and might not have any direct ties to other populations.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Basically implication is that humans exist on Earth, Golarion and Androffa without having common ancestry while having evolved into exact same species biologically.

Only other example we have of that canonically is Ysoki from Golarion and Akiton being same species even though there isn't proof of common ancestry.

Non canonically, Droffa(aka what became of Androffa since its James Jacob's home setting) has all Golarion core races as well, but we haven't actually had Pact Worlds make contact with any planet where core races evolved seperately.

Starfinder might be AU to Pathfinder, but as far as we know, its still canon that it is set in same universe were our Earth was.


The PF1 Elohim and even some of the Aeons are plausible candidates for seeding planets with life from other planets without even involving gods. I always assume Lamashtu and similar gods are repsonsible for all the powerful, weird monsters without plausible breeding populations existing.

And in general don't attribute too much foresight, planning, or comprehension of the implications of these issues to Paizo's developers. PF2's Gods and Magic already has two things (Arazni's god status/history and the free/not free status of the good elemental lords) that conflict with recent publications. If they can't keep that stuff straight or agree to a common approach, they don't have a grand unified (and believable) plan for the origin of life.


Starfinder Superscriber
Master Han Del of the Web wrote:
there are definitely forces at work that seem to have an interest in seeding planets with certain organism templates
Xenocrat wrote:
plausible candidates for seeding planets with life from other planets without even involving gods.

Absolutely. 100%. We even know that elves, orcs, and humans have a common root because they can successfully reproduce to create viable children. Even if Oras were to intentionally create a species using humans as a template, humans would still be the genetic base.

There's elementals, and aliens, and Aeons, and the dark tapestry. There's the eldest from the first world, and gods, and ancient mythic 10 wizards with epic levels creating an destroying entire solar systems and permanent planes. There are countless ways Suskillon could have been seeded.

... and "we don't know how" is a perfectly valid reason. At PaizoCon panels its been pretty bluntly laid out for one reason why the Gap was written into the setting.

The problem is the following three words: "Sapient life evolved". If pre-sapient apes were transported to Suskillon millenia ago, they would not evolve into humans. They would evolved into Suskillons, which could be incredibly human-like but as they evolved from a pre-sapience root species would not be genetically compatible with humans.

That sort of "divine transpermia" could explain why there are so many human-like races. Damai for example could have evolved from transpermia-sourced apes or humans millenia ago. Despite some genetic adaptations for vision and variant hair/skin tone they are essentially human, but we don't call them human, we call them Damai.


Maybe sapient life evolved on Suskillon but was subsequently wiped out by the ancestors of the pre-Shirren inhabitant races when they colonized the planet.


Arc Riley wrote:

The problem is the following three words: "Sapient life evolved". If pre-sapient apes were transported to Suskillon millenia ago, they would not evolve into humans. They would evolved into Suskillons, which could be incredibly human-like but as they evolved from a pre-sapience root species would not be genetically compatible with humans.

That sort of "divine transpermia" could explain why there are so many human-like races. Damai for example could have evolved from transpermia-sourced apes or humans millenia ago. Despite some genetic adaptations for vision and variant hair/skin tone they are essentially human, but we don't call them human, we call them Damai.

All we have to go on here is the word of the writers and everything I've heard and seen is that humans evolved on Suskillion. Since the label 'human' was used, I would expect the assumption is something genetically compatible with Pact Worlds and even Earth humans and otherwise lacking notable differences other than origin.

We are dealing with a setting where there are meddlesome beings capable of altering reality on a massive scale. Absurdly unlikely things happen with relative regularity and the nigh impossible is only really improbable.

This setting is one where the infinite monkey theorem is hard-bound law but those monkeys would not only produce the complete works of Shakespeare (Including a total of five lost works) but go on to establish a mildly successful publishing company before retiring on the proceeds from selling the movie rights to Love's Labor's Won.


In Starfinder god(s) may really have falsified the fossil records to give the illusion of evolution on that planet.


Nah. The gods are just lazy/efficient. When you have an entire universe to populate, why create an infinity of truly distinct species, when you can just take a much smaller selection of basic templates, and apply some procedural variation? So, yes, I can totally believe that humans "evolved" on some random planet. Probably countless random planets. Its because part of the underlying "source code" of the universe is a tendency to produce certain templates of life, and "human" is one of them.


Starfinder Superscriber

That's incredibly lazy world building.

The writers of Farscape did a great job of reconning the lazy makeup work with Sebaceans and other human-like races, that there was a lost truth - especially with the viable Sebaceans-Human hybrid child. While rushed, the discovery of the Eidolon Federation and their history traveling to Earth was good storytelling IMHO.

The real question here is what do apes evolving into sapient humans independently on Suskillon add to the story? Would it not be more interesting to make Suskillons a human-like species or Suskillon being settled by humans during the gap?

Continuing the previous example of Sebaceans, right from Farscape's pilot it was a huge mystery box why this very human-like and genetically compatible species was found elsewhere in the universe with both advantages over Earth humans (eye sight, stamina, faster injury recovery) and weaknesses (vulnerability to heat). It was tied into a clear sexual attraction and repeated reminders that Sebaceans are not Human over multiple seasons.

But this isn't presented as a mystery box. Its not a reason for Suskillon being of interest to Pact World's xenoarchaeologists or groups trying to discovery the truth of the Gap.

With a single word "evolved" the author and editorial team lost credibility with absolutely nothing to gain.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

They could have just wanted to demonstrate there are other planets with naturally evolved humans than Earth and Androffa which are both out of Golarion's reach?(or even knowing they exist)


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Regardless, considering this is firmly a science fantasy setting and not anything approaching hard sci-fi, I really wouldn't say the editorial team somehow tanked their credibility here.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Master Han Del of the Web wrote:
Regardless, considering this is firmly a science fantasy setting and not anything approaching hard sci-fi, I really wouldn't say the editorial team somehow tanked their credibility here.

Clearly in the OP's eyes that's not true, but yeah from where I'm sitting this really seems much ado about nothing.

Liberty's Edge

It would have been nice to see something else about this, but on the surface it is easily hand-waveable.


I think the easiest solution is to simply ignore the word "sapient", and assume that Suskillon was settled during The Gap. Nothing else makes sense to me. I'm going to chalk it up to sloppy writing - a simple mistake made without considering the implications - rather than lazy worldbuilding.

But then again, I've made a lot of changes to Suskillon anyway.


As bizarre as it may seem, I'd probably just chalk it up to otherworldly forces guiding evolution on Suskillon the same way they did with Golarion. After all, in Pathfinder, the humans were created by the Alghollthu for some mysterious purpose, and they were explicitly described as beings of alien origin. So since it's canon in Pathfinder lore that aliens created humans, it's possible that the Alghollthu created more of them on several other planets by using their powers to guide evolution to follow their desired outcomes as they went slithering around through the cosmos.

It at least makes way more sense than "they just evolved there too."


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

"Gods did it" answers a lot of questions in Starfinder.

Of course, it may also just be that the humans of Suskillon aren't as up on their evolutionary history as they think. For most of Paizo's publication history, the Hylki insisted that they were native to Akiton, but within the last few years we've learned that's not true, and that (with some weird exceptions) they're just culturally resistant to acknowledging their origins.

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

No reason why humans couldn't evolve independently on Suskillon.


"Not good like...one out of a hundred?"

"More like one out of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,0 00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,0 00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000."

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