Quick Alchemy

[jakjr15]

My question on the Alchemist ability Quick Alchemy comes from the stream that was posted right after Gencon. In the CRB this action is listed as a single action but on the Alchemist character sheet from the Character Sheet Pack it is shown to be a free action.

Some of the inconsistencies between these two sources were highlighted in that stream where it was stated that the character sheets were correct and the errors were discovered after the CRB went to print. Unfortunately, the semi recently released errata to the CRB did not mention this as a correction. So I would like to know, which is correct? Is Quick Alchemy supposed to be a free action (like the character sheet shows) or a single action (as shown in the CRB)? This matters heavily due to a lot of the Alchemist's feats relying on the use of Quick Alchemy.

Thanks in advance

[FlashRebel]

Well there are a few mixed signals in the rules about this one:

- Quick Alchemy doesn't have a limitation on its use (you can use it several times in a round, as many times as you want in a day as long as you have infused reagents or Perpetual Infusions), then Double Brew and the Lab Assistant familiar ability would be pointless if it only required a free action.

- Then there is the case of Alchemical Alacrity that lets you create 3 items at a time but without a specific feat these items must be used before your turn ends before degrading and you need three actions to use all of them, then one item is always lost and this ability is pointless without a feat if Quick Alchemy requires an action.

The alchemist has been the subject of many discussions regarding its baffling and incoherent design anyway then I suppose Quick Alchemy requires an action and I wouldn't be surprised if Alchemical Alacrity not working without a feat was yet another oversight.

[RexAliquid]

FlashRebel wrote:

- Then there is the case of Alchemical Alacrity that lets you create 3 items at a time but without a specific feat these items must be used before your turn ends before degrading and you need three actions to use all of them, then one item is always lost and this ability is pointless without a feat if Quick Alchemy requires an action.

It's not hard to get the bonus actions to use those items.

Quick Alchemy takes an action. It didn't change in the errata, so it's correct as printed in the CRB.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

RexAliquid wrote:

FlashRebel wrote:

- Then there is the case of Alchemical Alacrity that lets you create 3 items at a time but without a specific feat these items must be used before your turn ends before degrading and you need three actions to use all of them, then one item is always lost and this ability is pointless without a feat if Quick Alchemy requires an action.

It's not hard to get the bonus actions to use those items.

Quick Alchemy takes an action. It didn't change in the errata, so it's correct as printed in the CRB.

The errata is known to be missing changes. They intentionally only included the immediately important errata.

There is another coming but Mark said he didn't want to commit to a date (it was before christmas)

[RexAliquid]

That doesn’t change the fact that quick alchemy works fine taking an action. If it does change, great. If not, it still works.

[FlashRebel]

RexAliquid wrote:

It's not hard to get the bonus actions to use those items.

I didn't know the alchemist had access to the quickened buff. Except it doesn't, actually.

If you either need a feat, multiclassing or assistance from a caster for one of your baseline class features to be usable, there is a big problem.

[RexAliquid]

In a team game? Not a problem. You have many options to make the most use from it. Everyone has access to gold.

[FlashRebel]

Too bad, no item exists that gives extra actions that can be used to throw a bomb or use an alchemical item then no amount of gold can fix this. Then needing allies to spend actions and spell slots just for one of your baseline abilities to work just makes it a bad ability unless it's somehow more valuable than the spell slot expended, which it's clearly not. And finally making a feat mandatory for one ability to have a point is bad design.

[RexAliquid]

The items don't go away at the end of your turn.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

RexAliquid wrote:

That doesn’t change the fact that quick alchemy works fine taking an action. If it does change, great. If not, it still works.

Sure, but it is important to note when suggesting that because something wasn't in the errata that they have changed their mind on it.

"We should note that not every problem has been addressed in this document. Some are a bit complicated, and the solution is going to take more time to fully test before releasing it to all of you. Just because you don’t see an answer here doesn’t mean that we aren’t aware of and considering the issue—we’re likely just trying to figure out the best way to handle it."

[graystone]

RexAliquid wrote:

The items don't go away at the end of your turn.

"This item has the infused trait, but it remains potent only until the start of your next turn." So it's a fairly meaningless distinction when talking about the alchemist actions. Ending at the end of the turn or the start of your next results in the same number of action to use the items for the alchemist unless some kind of reaction could be used.

That's not even touching in the issue of being able to make more items than you can even hold [let alone use without taking an extra feat].

As to other's actions, most times that requires their whole round [Move, Interact [get item], Interact [use item]] which isn't very exciting with action economy: 2 alchemist items using 7 [between 3 people] actions [5d6+12 at 9th] to heal 2 people vs a cleric using a 3 action Divine Font heals 9d8 to everyone in 30'... IMO, that's not working "fine". Quick alchemy and action economy are bad as you level up unless you pay for a feat and the class ends up buying a lot of those type of feats for things other classes get for free [like DC increases].