Can an Entropic Strike deliver a poison?

[TClifford]

Example would be the new Alternate Racial Trait for Vesk of Vesk Venom. Can a Vesk Vanguard inflict the Venom on an Entropic Strike?

[HammerJack]

Vesk venom:

"Though most vesk are not venomous, a few have venom sacs and elongated teeth held over from a vesk subspecies that has since gone extinct, perhaps related to the snake-people of Vesk Prime. Other theories suggest these traits are from a time when an ancient vesk nation modified its warriors with magic or technology to gain venomous natural attacks.Vesk with this racial trait can deal piercing or bludgeoning damage with their unarmed strikes. When the vesk makes a successful unarmed strike that deals piercing damage, and the target takes damage from the attack, as a reaction the vesk can expose the target to venom (see page 27). Once a vesk has used their venom, they can do so again only after taking a 10-minute rest to regain Stamina Points. A vesk is immune to the effects of their own venom.This replaces armor savant and fearless, and it modifies natural weapons."

That can not be an entropic strike. First, while an entropic strike can be amade with any body part, it is not the same as an unarmed strike, and does not unleash the insane rules-stacking frenzy that would occur if it was. Second, entropic strike never deals piercing damage.

[Lethallin]

I think this line alone nixes using poisons:

Quote:

Additionally, you can apply any weapon special property, critical hit effect, or weapon fusion the melee weapon or shield has to your entropic strike as long as the effect can be applied to a one-handed advanced melee weapon that deals acid or bludgeoning damage, doesn’t use additional ammunition or charges, and doesn’t require information beyond that specified for your entropic strike to function.

Poisons are a a consumable item.

And while there isn't anything preventing the Injection property of a weapon being applied to a Bludgeoning or Acid damage weapon (as far as I can tell), I don't believe it would apply, as it seems clear the Entropic Strike isn't supposed to 'consume' anything, like the poison within the weapon.

Plus on the 'makes sense' table of things, you wouldn't necessarily be jabbing the needle into them with the entropic strike, you'd just as easily be hitting them with the side of the needle or the injector glove itself.

[Garretmander]

I'm pretty sure an injection weapon used with ES would work as normal with a poison loaded in the slot. After all, it's not additional ammunition or charges, it's just a weapon special property applying to some other item.

Applying poison to a piercing or slashing weapon the hard way would not, as an applied poison isn't a special property, critical effect, or weapon fusion.

[Xenocrat]

I don't think it would work because I don't think an entropic strike actually hits with your weapon or body, it's more of a short range projected field effect that happily can be infused with some properties of a held weapon without actually striking with that weapon. (You aren't hitting with the weapon because the damage type doesn't change.) The field effect is why you can later blast or have extreme reach on it.

[Uetur]

Entropic strike is an interesting ability that when I look at whether something stacks or not I ask myself two questions:

1. Are you making an Entropic strike or is the effect you are using say make a different type of attack? If you are making another type of attack such as an unarmed attack or a weapon attack they only count as an Entropic strike if you replace the attack with Entropic strike.

2. Are the properties I am trying to add to entropic strike native to a weapon or weapon fusion, or do I need to make a completely different type of attack to add them? For instance above in the Vesk example we see you need to make an unarmed attack, this is different from an Entropic Strike. This secondary abilities that proc off of the Unarmed attack wouldn't apply.

You can't use a injection weapon with the injection special property to mimic this because injection weapons use ammunition.

[Garretmander]

Uetur wrote:

You can't use a injection weapon with the injection special property to mimic this because injection weapons use ammunition.

The injection part doesn't use ammunition.

Injection is a weapon special property. The ammunition itself (in the case of a ranged weapon) is loaded with a consumable. That consumable is not itself ammunition, and the same applies to melee weapons.

So, entropic strike should get the full benefits of being an injection weapon, delivering the consumable on a hit.

Yes, it's a little weird, and no, I wouldn't argue otherwise if the GM at a table I was sitting at disallowed it, but RAW it's legit as far as I can tell.