Crafting magic items and spells of a higher level that i can cast

[Narxzul]

Kind of a short one here but i can't seem to find an exact answer, the magic creation rules says that the ONLY mandatory thing is the required feat, everything else you are missing is just a +5 to the DC but then there's this:

"While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal."

I'm a level 6 arcanist, i can cast up to 3rd level spells and i want to create a "lyre of building" which requires me to cast the spell "fabricate" which is spell level 5 and i would need to be level 10 myself to be able to cast it.

How would that work ?
am i just unable to craft the item ?
do i had a +10 to the DC for missing the spell + the caster level ?
and a question that is not so specific, what would the final caster level of that item be ?

[LordKailas]

A lyre of building has the following construction requirements

Lyre of Building wrote:

Feats Craft Wondrous Item, fabricate; Cost 6,500 gp

Caster level is not one of the requirements so it doesn't matter what your character's caster level is for purposes of making this item. As you've pointed out the feat is the only pre-req that can't be ignored.

Normally in order to craft this item you would need to make a spell craft check

Magic Item Creation wrote:

The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item.

So, 5+6 = 11

Now, because we can't cast fabricate nor do we have someone else who can cast it for us the DC increases by 5.

So now it's, 5+5+6 = 16

So, long as you have at least a +6 to spellcraft you can take 10 on the check and automatically pass it. This is because the caster level of the item has no bearing on it's creation outside of setting the DC required to craft the item.

Lets look at another example. A pearl of power has the following requirements

Pearl of Power wrote:

Craft Wondrous Item; Special creator must be able to cast spells of the spell level to be recalled; Cost 500 gp (1st), 2,000 gp (2nd), 4,500 gp (3rd), 8,000 gp (4th), 12,500 gp (5th), 18,000 gp (6th), 24,500 gp (7th), 32,000 gp (8th), 40,500 gp (9th), 35,000 gp (two spells)

Following the same process as above, if you wanted to make a 1st level pearl of power the DC would be

5+17 = 22

Once again, so long as you have a +12 to spell craft you can take 10 and pass this check automatically. Alternatively if we wanted to have our 6th level spellcaster make the 9th level pearl the DC would be

5+5+10 = 27

If the caster has a +17 to spellcraft they could take 10 to pass automatically, otherwise they will be forced to roll and must get a 27 or better.

To answer your follow up question. Unless the creator specifies otherwise the caster level of the item is whatever is listed regardless who created it. so the default lyre of building has a caster level of 6, while the default 1st level pearl of power has a caster level of 17. Even if both were created by a level 3 apprentice.

[blahpers]

You're missing one prerequisite, so you'd add 5 to the DC to craft the item.

So your total DC would be

5 + 6 (the usual DC for a lyre of building)
+ 5 (missing fabricate
= 16.

The final caster level would still be 6, as stated in the item description.

It's a little weird that the lyre of building has a lower caster level than that required to cast its prerequisite spell--technically it violates the item creation rules--but it happens often enough that I can't simply write it off as a typo.

[Narxzul]

Thanks a lot <3

[Meirril]

Just for the sake of completeness lets mention that spell completion items (wands, scrolls, potions) can't be made for spells you can't cast, and can't be made above your own caster level. You specifically can't skip those prerequisites.

Magic Item Creation wrote:

he only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites.

But you aren't making a spell-completion/trigger item so you can skip Fabricate by adding 5 to the DC.

[Cevah]

Unless you supply the spell in another way, like getting someone else to provide the spell or using a charge from a wand, or ....

/cevah