Because most don't need to compare themselves to others. DPR is a personal metric.Who said this had to be about characters played by the same person? That seems oddly specific.
DPR a personal metric in a group game? Damage per Round? Yep says nothing about it being a personal metric.
Except the others around the table have completely different everything. I wouldn't compare the DPR of the Wis-focused Druid to a AoO-focused Hellknight, because that's like comparing apples to hats.Who said this had to be about characters played by the same person? That seems oddly specific.
Cuz you know, as hard as this is for some people to understand, this is a group game.
Sometimes you have to look up from the white room spreadsheet and engage with the others around the table.
Except, I know here I go again eyeroll and all of that, but hear me out. Is not Group Damage per Round way the Asmodeus more important then your personal damage per round? Isn't the point to maximize(group) efficiency?
What is better for the group You to do +3.69872456349872345072348 PDPR
or
You deal -3.69872456349872345072348 PDPR, but increase the GDPR by +19.88245234505 GDPR?I'm surprised your (possibly changing, in PFS's case) group hands you all their character sheets to put into a spreadsheet and run numbers on them so that they can follow your instructions.
Because mine certainly doesn't.
Guess you have no idea what group game means then.
I dont know why you keep bringing up the fact it's a group game against people who use dpr as a pregame character building tool.
I find it baffling that you are selecting the rental car before you know where you are going and how many people you will be taking along.
Well, if I understand the cryptic rental car analogy, there's always PFS, where you literally cannot build around your group because it constantly changes.
Also, it may be baffling to you, but in every group I've played in the most we usually communicate about our builds to each other during chargen is our classes and character concept to make sure we don't have too many similar characters. We don't normally coordinate our builds together, we generally pick feats and things based on what we feel fits our concept best rather than what works best for the group as a whole. I feel like this method allows you to make a character with a little more personality built into the way they play, rather than a bag of stats who fits the composition best, but YMMV.
I do think that we tend to build more toward a team as we level, picking feats and spells to complement each other's fighting style, which to me makes more sense than a group of four random level 1's who just met but can fight perfectly together with strongly complementary builds.
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I'm surprised your (possibly changing, in PFS's case) group hands you all their character sheets to put into a spreadsheet and run numbers on them so that they can follow your instructions.Because mine certainly doesn't.
Guess you have no idea what group game means then.
So while we're going with this assertion, does anyone else hand their character sheets over to one person to optimize them for full party efficiency? Is my group the odd one out for not doing that?
So while we're going with this assertion, does anyone else hand their character sheets over to one person to optimize them for full party efficiency? Is my group the odd one out for not doing that?
I'm surprised your (possibly changing, in PFS's case) group hands you all their character sheets to put into a spreadsheet and run numbers on them so that they can follow your instructions.Because mine certainly doesn't.
Guess you have no idea what group game means then.
I don't know about you but any group I have been involved in, the person with the sweetest hair cut got to make all the decisions.
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Guess you have no idea what group game means then.
I think you miss one point: DPR is not an important data if you play a Giant Barbarian. However you build it, however you play it, your DPR will be high. DPR is a very important measure for support characters. Because if you don't know from Haste, Bless or Heroism which one will net your party the biggest advantage, you won't be able to properly play your character.
I mostly play support characters in organized play. So I can't use trial and error, as I'll certainly never play with the same characters or same party composition ever. I need to know, beforehand, what spells and what actions to use if I want to properly play my character.
It's true I could badly play my bards. Just throw buffs without taking in consideration the differences between the characters I'm playing with, but it's not part of my fun, sorry.
DPR has always been an important metric for me in that regard. And I've always been considered a very solid buffer. So, I'll continue to be interested in it and ignore gladly when someone considers there's any link between selfishness and DPR :D
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Guess you have no idea what group game means then.I think you miss one point: DPR is not an important data if you play a Giant Barbarian. However you build it, however you play it, your DPR will be high. DPR is a very important measure for support characters. Because if you don't know from Haste, Bless or Heroism which one will net your party the biggest advantage, you won't be able to properly play your character.
I mostly play support characters in organized play. So I can't use trial and error, as I'll certainly never play with the same characters or same party composition ever. I need to know, beforehand, what spells and what actions to use if I want to properly play my character.
It's true I could badly play my bards. Just throw buffs without taking in consideration the differences between the characters I'm playing with, but it's not part of my fun, sorry.DPR has always been an important metric for me in that regard. And I've always been considered a very solid buffer. So, I'll continue to be interested in it and ignore gladly when someone considers there's any link between selfishness and DPR :D
Wait....arenchyou the one talking about it being a personal metric, now all of a sudden it's to maximize the group effectiveness?
So it's not a personal metric cuz the Giant Barb doesn't worry about DPR you know cuz they deal damage... wait? what?
DPR is very important to the buffer in a group, but it's not their actual DPR (you know that personal metric you say it is) they are worried about it's the Giant Barb's DPR that the Giant Barb isn't worried about.
The buffer gets the joy of being worried about every other members DPR which implies that the buffer is making decisions for the group which is what is never ever supposed to be happening?
You mention you won't be able to properly play your character. If someone in these PFS games isn't properly playing their character do they still get all the buffs from you?
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Wait....arenchyou the one talking about it being a personal metric, now all of a sudden it's to maximize the group effectiveness?
So it's not a personal metric cuz the Giant Barb doesn't worry about DPR you know cuz they deal damage... wait? what?
DPR is very important to the buffer in a group, but it's not their actual DPR (you know that personal metric you say it is) they are worried about it's the Giant Barb's DPR that the Giant Barb isn't worried about.
The buffer gets the joy of being worried about every other members DPR which implies that the buffer is making decisions for the group which is what is never ever supposed to be happening?You mention you won't be able to properly play your character. If someone in these PFS games isn't properly playing their character do they still get all the...
Your lack of will to understand your interlocutors is impolite.
I'm off the debate, as you may guess.
DPR a personal metric in a group game? Damage per Round? Yep says nothing about it being a personal metric.DPR is a personal metric because your character is personal. Maybe you play in groups where other players have their say about the way you build your character, but I think you are the exception.Personally, sounds like your in the boat of 6 people sitting around trying to play a group game instead of in the boat of a group playing PF2. I feel for yas. Trust me I've been there. I've played in that boat. It was never enjoyable.
Why would you want to play in a boat where everyone is stepping all over each other trying to maximize their personal damage? Is there a prize awarded at the end by the GM for who was the bestest at their personal damage per round?
...the prize is in having fun in a way that your entire group enjoys. Some people like that level of friendly competition rather than cooperation. If all of them (and by all I include the GM of course) enjoy themselves, who else should get a vote?
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Dpr's importance is subjective to the player.
If your encounter's are balanced on such a knife's edge that you need to find your theorized optimal DPR at all times... Well I don't know what to say on that.
Are you all having fun and managing to survive?
That's all the DPR I need.
But... Again... DPR importance is subjective. And I like to estimate mine. Privately. For the hell of it.
Either way in 2e I'm much more interested in the cousin of DPR. Action efficiency.
It's why every one of my Gish builds is a monk or ranger base. One action 2 attacks are amazing for action economy. Plus setting up invisibility or mirror image is one of the few times I'm happy with ending my turn next to an enemy.
...the prize is in having fun in a way that your entire group enjoys. Some people like that level of friendly competition rather than cooperation. If all of them (and by all I include the GM of course) enjoy themselves, who else should get a vote?DPR a personal metric in a group game? Damage per Round? Yep says nothing about it being a personal metric.DPR is a personal metric because your character is personal. Maybe you play in groups where other players have their say about the way you build your character, but I think you are the exception.Personally, sounds like your in the boat of 6 people sitting around trying to play a group game instead of in the boat of a group playing PF2. I feel for yas. Trust me I've been there. I've played in that boat. It was never enjoyable.
Why would you want to play in a boat where everyone is stepping all over each other trying to maximize their personal damage? Is there a prize awarded at the end by the GM for who was the bestest at their personal damage per round?
Did anyone say "Even if all are enjoying themselves, but DPR = all is wrong?"
Dpr's importance is subjective to the player.
If your encounter's are balanced on such a knife's edge that you need to find your theorized optimal DPR at all times... Well I don't know what to say on that.
Are you all having fun and managing to survive?
That's all the DPR I need.
But... Again... DPR importance is subjective. And I like to estimate mine. Privately. For the hell of it.
Either way in 2e I'm much more interested in the cousin of DPR. Action efficiency.
It's why every one of my Gish builds is a monk or ranger base. One action 2 attacks are amazing for action economy. Plus setting up invisibility or mirror image is one of the few times I'm happy with ending my turn next to an enemy.
Of course DPR is subjective. I too ballpark mine, if the character I am playing feels the need to worry about it. When playing a supporting character I don't give a flip about it.