So, i have a dream, to make a team of non evil aligned Kobolds for fun.
And well, one of them i kind of want to have a gun. So after some looking i decided maybe the following.
1) Gunslinger Inquistor. how far in gunslinger should i go? Is there any features i should focus on getting specifically
Any advice with this would be nice, other than why kobolds of course. I understand how horrible they are
1. Go exactly 0 levels into Gunslinger. You get nothing from it. Just pick up Black Powder Inquisition.
2. Anything else you may need help with?
5 levels of gunslinger can be nice with some builds to pick up dex to damage. The only other thing you will miss from gunslinger is quick clear for when you have misfires.
Yeah 5 levels for dex to damage is the usual.
If you go Pistolero (for Up Close And Deadly) then potentially level 7 for Deadeye. You'll have time to decide whether deadeye is useful to you (probably depends on your group).
You can do this without multiclassing...
As mentioned, take the Black Powder Inquisition.
Take the Amateur Gunslinger feat for the Quick Clear deed, and the Grit pool to use it.
DEX-to-damage is a terrible trade for 5 levels. You never want those 5 levels.
"Oh yeah I'm doing +5 damage per hit now, great thing I traded [checks notes] 5 rounds of Bane for +2 attack/damage and +2d6 damage dice, +2 damage from an Judgement (plus a secondary effect from running away from Second Judgement) and a whole bunch of spell levels."
my only concern is Ranged builds require a lot of feats typically and that would be tacking more onto it
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my only concern is Ranged builds require a lot of feats typically and that would be tacking more onto it
For Gunquisitor you need:
1. Exotic Weapon proficiency (Black Powder Inquisition)
2. Gunsmithing (Black Powder Inquisition)
3. Rapid Reload
Everything else is pretty meh. Precise Shot is important for bow builds - since guns target touch AC, you are not that inclined towards it.
Deadly Aim doesn't do that much for 3/4 BAB classes.
Rapid Shot is only good once you have full access to a steady amount of alchemical ammunition, and that may be some levels.
I'd say Rapid Shot + Deadly Aim should be a priority, PBS + Precise Shot can be saved for later.
Other than that... I'd probably get Extra Bane?
DEX-to-damage is a terrible trade for 5 levels. You never want those 5 levels.
You're looking at this from the point of view of being the best Inquisitor. Being the best Gunslinger is a different thing.
Gunslingers basically always hit, and should be doing 3-4 attacks per round by level 10, so +5 damage per hit is +15-20 damage per round.
Gun training also lowers the misfire chance, which is the difference between 4 attacks per round and 3-4 attacks every other round.
DEX-to-damage is a terrible trade for 5 levels. You never want those 5 levels.You're looking at this from the point of view of being the best Inquisitor. Being the best Gunslinger is a different thing.
Gunslingers basically always hit, and should be doing 3-4 attacks per round by level 10, so +5 damage per hit is +15-20 damage per round.
Gun training also lowers the misfire chance, which is the difference between 4 attacks per round and 3-4 attacks every other round.
If you want to be the best Gunslinger, you go Gunslinger for 20 levels and get the +8 DEX capstone or the 1.5x DEX to attacks capstone.
If you want to go Gunquisitor, you go full Inquisitor and take advantage of Divine Favor etc to deal more damage. Misfire matters much less in this type of build as you have less attacks per round. Access to Fallback Strategy spell allows you to avoid misfires.
By losing Inquisitor levels, you lose the power of your spells and features.
By mixing Gunslinger with anything else, you run away from the capstone powers or Lighting Reload to deal more damage with rifles for 11th level builds.
All the builds in between either lose out on BAB (for feats) or spells on the Inquisitor side.
3 levels in trench fighter can be nice.
my only concern is Ranged builds require a lot of feats typically and that would be tacking more onto itFor Gunquisitor you need:
1. Exotic Weapon proficiency (Black Powder Inquisition)
2. Gunsmithing (Black Powder Inquisition)
3. Rapid Reload
Everything else is pretty meh. Precise Shot is important for bow builds - since guns target touch AC, you are not that inclined towards it.
Deadly Aim doesn't do that much for 3/4 BAB classes.
Rapid Shot is only good once you have full access to a steady amount of alchemical ammunition, and that may be some levels.
I'd say Rapid Shot + Deadly Aim should be a priority, PBS + Precise Shot can be saved for later.
Other than that... I'd probably get Extra Bane?
So if I'm reading this correctly, you're missing dex to damage, Point Blank Shot and Deadly Aim. At 9th level you're missing ~12 points of damage PER ATTACK. You're also missing one attack per round (Rapid Shot), your attack bonus is lower (Precise Shot), and your misfire chance is higher.
I don't mean to be rude, but I really don't understand how you think this will be a comparable damage dealer to someone who took 5 levels lf Gunslinger.
(Also I don't usually care about capstones since they represent such a tiny percent lf your playtime - assuming you get there at all)
So if I'm reading this correctly, you're missing dex to damage, Point Blank Shot and Deadly Aim. At 9th level you're missing ~12 points of damage PER ATTACK. You're also missing one attack per round (Rapid Shot), your attack bonus is lower (Precise Shot), and your misfire chance is higher.I don't mean to be rude, but I really don't understand how you think this will be a comparable damage dealer to someone who took 5 levels lf Gunslinger.
(Also I don't usually care about capstones since they represent such a tiny percent lf your playtime - assuming you get there at all)
This is an Inquisitor. Deadly Aim is 2 +2 damage per every 6 to 5 levels. Not that it isn't good – it's just not as good, and your main source of damage is Bane/Divine Favor/Reaper's Coterie/Magic Weapon/whatever else you slap on the bad boy.
It can certainly wait.PBS... is only active at a very specific range? I mean, if you plan to be there, go for it.
You do know you are going to be spending feats on stuff right? You are acting as though from levels 5 to 9 I'm advocating for this guy to spend feats on like, dunno, Skill Focus.
I'm saying that the order of priorities is different for gun builds, and most certainly different for Inquisitor builds, which have other priorities than Gunslinger builds.
If you wanna do a Gunslinger, go get damage from wherever you can find. The class is filled to the brim with survival measures, and getting damage is the challenge.
Inquisitors? You want to a) improve action economy, b) have better resource management, and then it goes a whole list of things far, far away from "deal more damage", which your baseline kit already does well enough.
But by all means, build classes the same way all the time, let's close down the forums and just read the Zenith's guides.
But by all means, build classes the same way all the time, let's close down the forums and just read the Zenith's guides.
Didn't mean to offend, as I said upthread my disagreement is that you're looking at this from the perspective of being the best Inquisitor, I'm looking at it to get the most out of using a gun.
To my mind there are 3 ways to do this.
1. Pure Inquisitor: Gives you the best scaling spells/class abilitues, but you're really only using a gun for flavour.
2. Gunslinger-1/Inquisitor-X: This gives you some incredibly useful deeds, most notably QUICK CLEAR, which is basically mandatory for a gun to be actually useful. You won't have super high damage, but you'll hit a lot and have a lot of utility.
3. Gunslinger-5*/Inquisitor-X: This is your high damage character. DEX to damage is a pretty big chunk of damage and the reduced misfire chance means you'l never stop shooting. Less utility from spells/etc, but it's still enough to be useful.
NOTE: The reason Gunslinger-5/Inquisitor-X is so popular in the guides is that you actually get more damage from Inquisitor than you do from Gunslinger past level 5.
For feats: PBS is great for Gunslingers since they have to be within 30 feet to target touch AC anyway (until Longshot/etc). Precise shot is an almost-always +4 to hit. Even against Touch AC those penalties can add up (-4 cover, -4 melee, -2 range, not to mention status effects like shaken/sickened). Beyond that the feats I mentioned are about doing more damage and attacking more often (you'd need Rapid Reload too).
Basically you want to determine what the focus of the character is and build accordingly.
*Gunslinger-5 could be substituted for Trench Fighter 3 or Pistolero 7 depending on what you want. There are probably other options as well.
Thanks everyone, i think i have enough to work with.
Using amateur gunslinger to pick up quick clear is possible, but often inconvenient because of your small grit pool. You can pick up extra grit to get around this, but then you’re using up even more feats on an increasingly feat hungry combat style.
I’d be very tempted to dip one level of gunslinger and instead benefit from some other domain or inquisition.
100% agree Melkiador, 1 level of Gunslinger isn't likely to hurt you in a meaningful way, but gives so much that you need to make guns functional (proficiency, quick clear, deadeye, grit, gunsmithing).
I've tried to find another method for building gun based casters other than dipping gunslinger and have found it very very hard. Other options are musketeer or picaroon swashbuckler, or the spells car driver cavalier. Those work well if you want to use Cha for "grit" but still aren't great.
Another reason going Gunslinger 1 is useful is you then can gain a Domain or other Inquisition for the Inquisitor side. That gives you either some nice combat bonuses or nice social bonuses.
That is something to consider for sure.
Depends on campaign length and point buy, I guess.
The build is not necessarily MAD, so there's no reason not to invest in CHA if you want social skills.