I am probably missing something somewhere, but how do animal companions gain a specialization? p217 CRB. Is it a class feat I am just not seeing from Ranger or Druid? Is it a natural thing that happens at a certain level? Thanks in advance...
Specialized Companion feat at level 14 for druids and 16 for rangers
Thank you, completely missed it in both classes and is a lot higher level then I thought it would be. So you can't multiclass into it, must be either ranger or druid to begin with. Was toying with idea of Barbarian multiclass into Druid or Ranger for animal companion...
Multiclass animal companion is probably not a good idea. Because animal companions are quite weak compared to the monsters you're fighting, AC feats have to be taken at-level for the companion to keep up at all. Otherwise you'll be spending a lot of resources for a companion with low damage that dies extremely quickly.
This is a result of the design paradigm that minions should be significantly weaker than player characters, as minion master characters bog down games.
Probably the only one really good could be the druid, because it gets ac feats faster than other classes.
A ranger is balanced because of flat footed status and a free attack ( even if you don’t plan to expend actions for your companion ).
A champion is not well suited in terms of a fighting animal companion, but the mount is cool.
Also the auspicious mount feat is beautiful, even if not the best deal for a combat pet.
Ps: note that you can exploit the champ mount and get a wolf with a Goblin ancestry or adopted ancestry, so you could be like a ranger ( or even better at lvl 20 because of flying pet, and eventually a flying character ).
BellyBeard wrote: Multiclass animal companion is probably not a good idea. Because animal companions are quite weak compared to the monsters you're fighting, AC feats have to be taken at-level for the companion to keep up at all. Otherwise you'll be spending a lot of resources for a companion with low damage that dies extremely quickly.
This is a result of the design paradigm that minions should be significantly weaker than player characters, as minion master characters bog down games.
That is assuming that you are spending the AC feats to get a Primary striker or meatshield. A MCD broadens your abilities and are not meant to be a primary schtick (thus usually limiting you to a AC tier below primary - Young AC while druid AC is Mature etc). Thus, the AC could serve as the last line of defense for a mage (shield bear so the fighters can actually attack the target without worry), ranged secondary striker (Hunting cat against the NPC support archers to relieve pressure on others), deep reserve to buy time (last stand badger), etc.
You should not expect to get a MCD AC and have it stand shoulder to shoulder with the champion or fighter. Your primary class (e.g. caster) should be walking the talk while the AC would be a lesser add (on par with 2-3 class feats it takes).
TL:DR - MCD ACs are no longer automatic great picks but have a role to plug a gap or perceived need
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I haven't looked closely at the high level animal companion numbers, but for my low level player with an AC it has about half the character's HP, and stats of a monster maybe 2-3 levels below the party (which would match the summon spells iirc). I suppose a shield bear would work, in that it could block some attacks for you, but you're going to need replacement bears very frequently as enemies regularly crit it into the ground (or spend actions stabilizing it frequently, in which case you aren't getting much of a benefit from the "wasted" enemy attacks). It's also using up your actions unless you just have it stand there, in which case the enemies don't have any reason to attack it. It's probably not as bad as I'm imagining though, definitely something that would need play to determine how effective it is.
Not really tracking - Assume 5th level
Animal Companion bear would have 48 HP
(8th level MCD gap narrows considerably with Mature)
Human Ranger would have 68 assuming 14 con
Human Wizard would have 48 assuming 14 con
Animal Companion AC would be 20 (10+2dex+1barding+7trained)
(gap assumes Ranger has maxed out armor/dex combination)
Human Ranger would likely be 22 (10+5 dex/armor+7trained)
Human Wizard would likely have 20 (10+3dex/armor+7trained)
Animal Companion Bear To hit would be 10 (3str+7 trained)
(again gap narrows at 8th level MCD)
Human Ranger would likely be max at 12 (4dex/str +7trained+1rune)
Damage is 1d8+3 vs 1d+4 (assuming melee)
Thus, it does not really lag that far behind for a shield bear or a secondary striker (Again said not suitable for frontline as primary tank or striker which should be PCs).
As for enemies regularly critting it to the ground ... Since it is a shield bear for the enemies that skip the frontline or secondary striker on archers, I would not agree with that assessment. If it is regularly being critted to death (with an AC 2 less than a frontliner) and being not being in the frontline, then you have much bigger problems
Laran wrote: Not really tracking - Assume 5th level
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Human Ranger would likely be max at 12 (4dex/str +7trained+1rune)
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Ranger should be +14 at level 5: Their weapon proficiencies increase to expert at that level.
Ranger Weapon Expertise wrote: You’ve dedicated yourself to learning the intricacies of your weapons. Your proficiency ranks for simple and martial weapons and unarmed attacks increases to expert. You gain access to the critical specialization effects of all simple and martial weapons and unarmed attacks when attacking your hunted prey. Why, yes, our party did just hit 5th level: How could you tell???
Taja the Barbarian wrote: Laran wrote: Not really tracking - Assume 5th level
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Human Ranger would likely be max at 12 (4dex/str +7trained+1rune)
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Ranger should be +14 at level 5: Their weapon proficiencies increase to expert at that level.
Ranger Weapon Expertise wrote: You’ve dedicated yourself to learning the intricacies of your weapons. Your proficiency ranks for simple and martial weapons and unarmed attacks increases to expert. You gain access to the critical specialization effects of all simple and martial weapons and unarmed attacks when attacking your hunted prey. Why, yes, our party did just hit 5th level: How could you tell??? Yes, you are correct (just did off the cuff calcs since he mentioned low level). My point is still that the MDC Animal companion is a viable shield bear for a spellcaster/ranged, secondary striker to attack enemy archers/spellcasters, etc.
You do not expect a 2-3 feat ability to be on par with another PCs primary role. You expect the AC to add some breadth and fill some need (which it will do admirably) not that your PC will outshine the others because it can do full spell casting while simultaneously being a tank/damage dealer (for example)
*edit*I do not want to play in a party where my AC is close to as good in combat as another PC AND then I cast my powerful spells at the same time (not particularly enjoyable for anyone)
You are right, I have a cat in my game which just happens to have the lowest HP of the lot (odd on a creature built to be a flank buddy). My apologies.
BellyBeard wrote: You are right, I have a cat in my game which just happens to have the lowest HP of the lot (odd on a creature built to be a flank buddy). My apologies. What's even worse is that you cannot tell the cat to flank automatically. It can only go to a square you point out (which you plan to flank off) and then you have to maneuver since the cat will stay relatively stationary (follow in target in shortest path)
It was more of a thematic looking choice, not a max optimization idea. We came across a bear, and got a nat 20 on the nature handle animal check. Wasn't looking for it to be a front line tank by any means. A flanking buddy/harasser maybe. But I am somewhat confused by the commands.
Do you have to issue a command every round for it to get it's 2 actions (until mature, where it get's 1 if not commanded), even if the command was something like kill that enemy? Wouldn't it be smart enough to continue attacking that enemy round to round? And then have to issue a a new command after that?
Kainite101 wrote: It was more of a thematic looking choice, not a max optimization idea. We came across a bear, and got a nat 20 on the nature handle animal check. Wasn't looking for it to be a front line tank by any means. A flanking buddy/harasser maybe. But I am somewhat confused by the commands.
Do you have to issue a command every round for it to get it's 2 actions (until mature, where it get's 1 if not commanded), even if the command was something like kill that enemy? Wouldn't it be smart enough to continue attacking that enemy round to round? And then have to issue a a new command after that?
My understanding is that yes, you need to issue a new command every round.
The animal companion has two major advantages over any other animal 1) it is loyal so it will do what you direct it to do without needing to make a check and 2) it is a minion so it gets two actions for your single command (a non-minion animal gets only 1 action for every 1 of yours)
Like all other animals it forgets the commands by the end of its turn (p249 sidebar) so you cannot "fire and forget." This rule prevents it from continuing the action into the next round without orders. If you do not issue a command, my understanding is that it would do nothing or the DM decides what it does (perhaps it flees, etc).
I personally like MCing Ranger for a Horse/Pony animal companion for my skirmisher builds. Stride+Strike+Strike gets an improvement when you can Command an Animal (Stride+Support)+Strike+Strike. +2 circumstance bonus per weapon damage dice on your next attack and higher movement speed.
And since you're the focus on your mount, all your mount would typically have to deal with would be AoEs
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