Why is oracle its own class?


Oracle Playtest


Would it not be better game design to make this a dedication feat line that could bolt a mysterious force onto existing classes? This would greatly multiply the potential character options out there, with less actual rules needed. The With's patron should actually be this exact same thing. Just combine these into the same dedication, with a wide variety of patron/mystery options, and let the player's build the theme they want.


Witch and Oracle (at least originally) had very different themes and play styles. While the Oracle was flexible in what it could get (mystery, revelation, and curse) along with its curse the abilities had limited duration and uses; and their power was a mix of unfortunate events and dedication.

The Witch in the mean time was less flexible mostly getting non scaling hexes (they got patron spells and hexes), but they were usually at will which made Witches very reliable; their power was combination of training and borrowed power (the familiar).


A class has more flexibility, mechanically and thematically, than a simple archetype does. If you did make Oracles a simple archetype rather than their own class, you remove the possibility of a character who gains all their power from the Mystery. It becomes something tacked-on rather than the central focus of that character.

Like, look at Fighters. Their thing is that they're the best-trained weapon-users. Couldn't that have just been an archetype? Sure, it could have. But that approach removes the concept of someone who dedicates themselves wholly to the blade.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

No. "Serves a god" is pretty hard-coded into the Cleric class, which is fine, but Golarion canonically has a bunch of other religions in it, which also have spellcasters.

Plus "the oracle's curse" is one of the most thematically compelling part of the class and there wouldn't be appropriate room to do it justice if it were just part of an archetype or class path.


In Pathfinder 1st Edition, cleric is the primary prepared divine spellcaster and oracle is the primary spontaneous divine spellcaster. However, Pathfinder 2nd Edition has another primary spontaneous divine spellcasters: sorcerer with angelic, diabolic, or undead bloodline. The sorcerer class and oracle class are very similar.

Sorcerer Hit Points: 6 + CON
Oracle Hit Points: 8 + CON
Sorcerer Initial Proficiencies: Trained in Perception, Trained in Fortitude, Trained in Reflex, Expert in Will, Trained in simple weapons and unarmed attacks, Trained in unarmored defense, Trained in spell attack rolls and spell DCs of bloodline spellcasting tradition.
Oracle Initial Proficiencies: Trained in Perception. Trained in Fortitude, Trained in Reflex, Expert in Will, Trained in simple weapons and unarmed attacks, Trained in unarmored defense, Trained in divine spell attack rolls and spell DCs
Sorcerer Skills: Trained in two bloodline skills and 2 + INT others.
Oracle Skills: Trained in Religion, two mystery skills, and 2 + INT others.
Sorcerer Spell Progression: Spell tradition based on bloodline, 5 cantrips per day, 4 of each low-level spell per day, 3 of the highest level spell per day.
Oracle Spell Progression: Divine spells, 5 cantrips per day, 3 of each low-level spell per day, 2 of the highest level spell per day, and curse-based focus spells.

1st level sorcerer: Ancestry and background, initial proficiencies, sorcerer spellcasting, spell repertoire, bloodline
1st level oracle: Ancestry and background, initial proficiencies, divine spellcasting, spell repertoire, mystery
2nd level both: Skill feat, class feat
3rd level both: 2nd-level spells, general feat, signature spells, skill increase
4th level both: Skill feat, class feat
5th level sorcerer: 3rd-level spells, ability boosts, ancestry feat, magical fortitude, skill increase
5th level oracle: 3rd-level spells, ability boosts, ancestry feat, skill increase
6th level both: Skill feat, class feat
7th level sorcerer: 4th-level spells, expert spellcaster, general feat, skill increase
7th level oracle: 4th-level spells, expert spellcaster, general feat, resolve, skill increase
8th level both: Skill feat, class feat
9th level sorcerer: 5th-level spells, ancestry feat, lightning reflexes, skill increase
9th level oracle: 5th-level spells, ancestry feat, magical fortitude, skill increase
10th level both: Ability boosts, skill feat, class feat
etc.

Thus, without much effort, the sorcerer class could be tweaked to have an oracle archetype. All it would require is introducing mystery and curse as a new kind of bloodline.

Another difference between PF1 cleric and PF1 oracle is that the PF1 cleric is a generalist and PF1 oracle is a specialist. Each mystery has a strong theme and the revelation powers they provide on that theme make up a significant part of the oracle's abilities. A PF1 oracle received a revelation at 1st, 3rd, and every 4th level after 3rd, and many revelations were more powerful than feats. For PF2, the revelations are focus spells that are about as powerful as a cleric's domain spells. The oracle starts with two, and by spending class feats the cleric can receive an advanced revelation at 6th level and a greater revelation at 10th level, and increase uses of the focus spells too. The playtest will determine whether this makes the PF2 oracle feel specialized on a strong theme. If the revelation theme is no stronger than a bloodline, then the oracle will feel a lot like a divine sorcerer.

The third main difference between the PF1 cleric and the PF1 oracle is that a PF1 cleric is a devoted servant of a god and a PF1 oracle gained powers without a connection to a god. In PF2, the cleric has even stronger emphasis on serving a god. However, the PF2 divine sorcerer already fills the niche of the divine caster that has no connection to a god. The flavor of the PF2 oracle is that they have a connection to a divine power beyond the gods that is associated with many gods. That feels halfway between the cleric and the divine sorcerer.


The benefit of the dedication feats I propose, is that you aren't making 'Sorcerer (Oracle)' be the replacement for the 1e Oracle class - you can have, instead, a 'Cleric' that is cursed by a mystery that trades a curse for power - or a wizard who dabbled a bit too much in his youth and was cursed with a similar affliction. The variety of these mechanics being able to be added to a number of base classes is far more enticing to me than the choice of 'I'm an Oracle' from level one, and that's just what you are for the rest of the game.

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Advanced Player’s Guide Playtest / Oracle Playtest / Why is oracle its own class? All Messageboards
Recent threads in Oracle Playtest