The flying rules state:
You move through the air up to your fly Speed. (...) You can use an action to Fly 0 feet to hover in place.
The Acrobatics (Maneuver in flight) check (CRB p240-241) lists "hover in midair" as a sample expert task. So anyone who is not expert in Acrobatics can't hover at all.
Does that all sound correct?
The bestiary doesn't appear to list whether a given creature is expert in Acrobatics (or give any proficiency level for any skill for that matter). So what, is it just a judgement call, to see if they can attempt certain maneuvers, like hovering?
Really! That would really help with those tasks. What makes you sure that the listed proficiency level isn't a prerequisite to attempting them?
My apologies for digging up an old thread, but I was looking for an answer to this myself and didn’t want to create a new one.
So the “Fly” action states that you can use the action to hover in place, with no mention of a skill check or DC, The “Maneuver in Flight” action is a completely different skill action that also covers hovering, but at an Expert DC. RAW it appears to me that any creature capable of flight can just use the “Fly” action instead of the “Maneuver in Flight” action to hover in place with no checks involved.
Is there an intent to these rules? I’ll be running my first PF2e encounter with a flying creature soon (a Vrock), and the way I roll I’m sure my first attempt to “Maneuver in Flight” will be a critical fail...
Is there an intent to these rules? I’ll be running my first PF2e encounter with a flying creature soon (a Vrock), and the way I roll I’m sure my first attempt to “Maneuver in Flight” will be a critical fail...
No idea sadly, The rules are weirdly unclear and I hope the errata document coming soon will clear it up.
My current house rule is
- Anything greater than a 45 degree incline takes an acrobatics check
- Hovering takes a check
- 180 degree turns takes a check
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I just make them take an action to hover, no roll. I only make them roll if it is something difficult or a spells requires it. Flying creature shouldn't have any trouble hovering. It's like natural movement to them. You don't roll to stand in place, no need to make them roll to hover. Just spend the action since flying is a little more difficult than walking.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I just make them take an action to hover, no roll. I only make them roll if it is something difficult or a spells requires it. Flying creature shouldn't have any trouble hovering. It's like natural movement to them. You don't roll to stand in place, no need to make them roll to hover. Just spend the action since flying is a little more difficult than walking.
While I am not exactly a scientist from what I know it actually is quite difficult for creatures that rely on physical flight to hover in place and only a minority of birds and insects can actually do it.
However nobody would ever think of rolling a fly check to hover for creatures that rely on magical flight (e.g. ghosts or beholder types), so for convenience sake I would also recommend to just spend the action and to drop the check.
Thanks for the comments and replies!
So I’ve thought this through and I think the best corollary is using the “Balance” action instead of the “Stride” action when walking across a tightrope. So while having access to the “Fly” action gives you the ability to attempt a hover, is still requires a “Maneuver in Flight” check to succeed.
Gleeful, your house rules make a lot of sense to me.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Reminds me of a similar discussion.
However nobody would ever think of rolling a fly check to hover for creatures that rely on magical flight (e.g. ghosts or beholder types), so for convenience sake I would also recommend to just spend the action and to drop the check.
Similar, but not identical because the underlying questions are not the same:
Spend an action to fly? Yes/No
and
Make a check for manouevres? Yes/No.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The other thing I don't get: if you have flapping wings, you shouldn't need to roll to hover in still air. It would be like making people roll to sit down.
I would like to point you to the vast majority of creatures with wings that find it incredibly difficult to hover in place with still air.
O.o
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The other thing I don't get: if you have flapping wings, you shouldn't need to roll to hover in still air. It would be like making people roll to sit down.I would like to point you to the vast majority of creatures with wings that find it incredibly difficult to hover in place with still air.
O.o
I googled which birds can hover and there are quite a lot of them. But let me ask you. The ones that don't. How do we know they can't? After all they're just dumb birds and you can't easily ask them to try it.
Maybe someday we will be able to do this and I'll bet that if we made a bird of prey human intelligence it would beat any fighter pilot in understanding of aerial maneuvers because it's natural for it.
Bone structure, muscle anatomy, weight and physics. The only birds capable of hovering indefinitely in place are hummingbirds. Some birds can hover for a little bit before doing something (most notably kestrels), but it's hard, especially if you don't have headwind (and using headwind to hover isn't a "true" hover in the sense you're not mantaining position by wing movement alone)
Still, what can or can't happen IRL shouldn't have bearing on PF. Personally, I wouldn't require a check, simply because the Fly action doesn't list Hovering as requiring one.
It's no sillier than the Fly action letting you slam into the ground at full speed from 120 feet in the air with a single action (if you have a Fly speed of 60 feet) while taking absolutely no damage.
XD
Bone structure, muscle anatomy, weight and physics.
According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way that a bee should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyways. Because bees don't care what humans think is impossible.
- Bee Movie
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I rise!
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
A popular myth ... but is ultimately untrue
Not a myth at all.
That is indeed an actual quote from Bee Movie.
Are Fly and Maneuver in Flight separate actions that need to be made in one turn, or do you make a maneuver in flight check, and it includes fly?
The latter.