2e Bard Help / Advice with Muses

[Rhapsodic College Dropout]

I'm looking to make a bard that focuses on skill versatility and knowing a little about a lot of things, but since the core skills for the class that were featured in 1e are spread around the three muses, I'm hoping to get some advice or clarification. In short, I'm asking for help as to where to put skill training/skill ups.

If I select the Enigma Muse and get the Bardic Lore feat, should I put skill ranks in other skills for Recall Knowledge (Religion, Nature, Arcana, etc.) or does the special Bardic Lore lore skill suffice for all my Recall Knowledge needs? Once I'm "legendary" in Occultism, I become an "expert" in the Bardic Lore lore skill but that seems a bit down the line...

I plan on taking the Multifarious Muse feat to go Polymath to gain the Versatile Performance feat; since i can substitute a Performance check for certain Diplomacy, Intimidation, and Deception skill actions should I focus on leveling those skills as well, or just pump up Performance? And since I would only be skilling up Performance and not the others, wouldn't I miss out on a lot of the skill feats those skills have to offer? I very much liked the 1e version of versatile performance and I'm trying to wrap my head around the 2e version.

Thanks for any help or advice anyone can offer!

[Kyrone]

You could instead of bumping Occultism bump Arcana and get the feat Unified Theory, you can continue with Enigma and Polymath for class feats.

[Siro]

Kyrone wrote:

You could instead of bumping Occultism bump Arcana and get the feat Unified Theory, you can continue with Enigma and Polymath for class feats.

Largely agree with this {its easier to increase and get a better bonus to Arcana then it is for Bardic Lore, which can make a huge deal of difference, especially with some of the Enigma Muses feat. Plus its not limited to just Recall Knowledge actions, though remember you have to wait until LV16 before you can get Unified, so it may be something to consider retaining in order to get when you reach that level.) One slight caveat with Unified is it will not cover Society Knowledge checks, along with possibly some very rare Lore that just doesn't fit into any other Recall Knowledge Skills privy.

As far as 'Versatile Performance' I would generally say get Trained in Diplomacy and Deception, as even just trained you would still be generally {assuming you are making Cha your main stat} decent with them, and covers skills activities Performance would not. Getting your Level + Cha Mod + 2 should cover your general needs, if your not relying on them all the time. Often times a skills activities can work together, for example, before trying to 'Make an Impression' on the Duke, you try to 'Gather Information' on him to make that job even easier, and be able to 'Request' of something afterwards, or under the off chance some questions your 'Impersonate' you got a decent chance with 'Lie' to get yourself out of the situation. Intimidation maybe a skill slightly easier to go without because all you gain is 'Coerce' but it can still be useful to have at least trained for it. In general I would not push these skills pass 'Trained' if your going down the 'Performance' route.

[S. J. Digriz]

If you want to be a highly skilled enigma bard, you should be a human with the skilled heritage, because it gives you a skill bump to expert. Another thing you can do is take rogue dedicatio for 2 additional skill and a skill feat and then at 8th or so, skill mastery to bump more skills to expert/master, and get more skill feats.

I would go polymath and pick up enigma via multifarious muse. That way you don't need to train in intimidate or diplomacy right away (unless you want to).

I would definitely train in deception though, because you will want to lie to people.

Another thing to do, of course, is to have a good intelligence score. Try to start with at least a 14. Also, while constitution is very useful, no skills use it, so it might be worth the risk to boost intelligence, wisdom, dexterity, and charisma, and leave constitution at 10. As a human, you can start with intelligence 14, wisdom 12, dexterity 14, charisma 18.

[S. J. Digriz]

If you want to be a highly skilled enigma bard, you should be a human with the skilled heritage, because it gives you a skill bump to expert. Another thing you can do is take rogue dedication for 2 additional skill and a skill feat and then at 8th level or so, take skill mastery to bump more skills to expert/master, and get another skill feat.

I would go polymath and pick up enigma via multifarious muse. That way you don't need to train in intimidate or diplomacy right away (unless you want to).

I would definitely train in deception though, because you will want to lie to people.

Another thing to do, of course, is to have a good intelligence score. Try to start with at least a 14. Also, while constitution is very useful, no skills use it, so it might be worth the risk to boost intelligence, wisdom, dexterity, and charisma, and leave constitution at 10. As a human, you can start with intelligence 14, wisdom 12, dexterity 14, charisma 18.

[Siro]

Oh, and with Feats, you can use your 'Performance' to qualify for any Diplomacy, Deception, or Intimidation feat. However you can only apply 'Performance' when using these feats when it mentions activities covered by Versatile Performance. For example, while you could qualify for both 'Group Impression' and 'Bargain Hunter' using Performance, however you can only use Performance on 'Group Impression' {as its using a skill activity mentioned in Versatile Performance} but not 'Bargain Hunter' {as it does not use one of the Versatile Performance listed activities.)

I would say {and sorry for the cop-out answer} it depends on what you are trying to go for with these feats. If you find a majority of the feats you want can be covered by the Performance skill {or your ok with it being used with a skill that may only be 'Trained' and just using VP to possibly cheat the requirements.) I'd say go for it. If not, it may be a reconsideration of what you want to do, or how your want the build to go and what skills you want to invest in.

[Blave]

Kyrone wrote:

You could instead of bumping Occultism bump Arcana and get the feat Unified Theory, you can continue with Enigma and Polymath for class feats.

Unified Theory only works on knowledge checks about magic. It allows you to roll Arcana for checks involving the other three magical traditions, not for all Recall Knowledge checks.

You couldn't use it to know the edicts of an obscure Deity or identify a rare animal with Arcana.

[Siro]

There as been some debate on how Unified Theory works, and wither it just applies to spell checks or can apply to any checks. I do believe its intended to only apply to magic, and without any debate I would rule it as such. However there has also been some speculation that it works with any checks involving those skills <for example there is this thread Level 20 Test. makes mention of the Bard making non-magic skill checks because of Arcane Theory, and another forum with speculation you can use it with the feat ' Natural Medicine'.} However nothing official.

If your on one side or another, it is something that should get clarified eventually. Hopefully its in the errata and clarifications we are suppose to get something this month {I believe.).

[Blave]

Unified Theory wrote:

Whenever you use an action or a skill feat that requires a Nature, Occultism, or Religion check, depending on the magic tradition, you can use Arcana instead.

Seems pretty straight forward to me. Only checks that deal with magic like Identify Magic or Recognize Spell use different skills depending on the tradition of the effect.

Anyway, that's how I read it and I don't see much room for interpretation, to be honest. Let's just leave it at that.

[Siro]

Oh, I do generally agree, but a lot of others have interpreted it the other way. Which is the reason why I think there should eventually be an official word on it. Also double on leaving it just at that.

[Rhapsodic College Dropout]

Thanks all for the advice. Rogue dedication looks like a good move for what I am going for, and it's nice to see that my proficiency in Performance unlocks feats for those skills that are tied to it.