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I find it a bit irritating that Pathfinder never bothered to correct the old 3E error of having bucklers not use a hand.
In general, a shield is a weapon, something you need to actively use to defend yourself. A hard thing you wear on your arm is called a vambrace.
To make my irritation worse, larger shields, that you actually do strap to you arm allow you to much more easily grip and even use something else in you shield hand, since a leather strip is not very thick.
It's all backwards and topsy turvy :(
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Well, even shields that are "strapped" did require you to grip one part, either another strap or a fixed handle. There were also plenty of center grip shields with no straps besides the one used to carry the shield around out of combat.
I've been giving this shield stuff a lot of thought, and I've pretty much decided that I'm ruling it like so:
1. No shield is "strapped" onto you by default. Every shield is picked up and wielded like a weapon, and shields that do have a strap are simple to put your arm through in the same action it takes to equip the shield. This lets all shields, even center grip ones, actually make sense.
2. Bucklers are simply light enough to allow you to hold something else in that hand without much trouble, which aligns with real world buckler use.
3. If a player wants straps to represent an added difficulty (or impossibility) of disarming the shield, they can add a strap action, which also requires an unstrap action to drop the shield.
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I was hoping this was an explanation of the explosion of shield use in Golarion (not a criticism btw). Personally I think there must be a portal open from the elemental plane of shields...
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I was hoping this was an explanation of the explosion of shield use in Golarion (not a criticism btw). Personally I think there must be a portal open from the elemental plane of shields...
Like the sword world from the Swords Comics but for shields?
I was hoping this was an explanation of the explosion of shield use in Golarion (not a criticism btw). Personally I think there must be a portal open from the elemental plane of shields...Like the sword world from the Swords Comics but for shields?
Yes please.
Love your name btw, just got it.
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I was hoping this was an explanation of the explosion of shield use in Golarion (not a criticism btw). Personally I think there must be a portal open from the elemental plane of shields...
Now all we need is a new deity of Shields.
That deity already uncreated Sunder to avoid the distress endured by the god of Hammers.
Their sacred fighting style is said to be dual wielding ;-p
2. Bucklers are simply light enough to allow you to hold something else in that hand without much trouble, which aligns with real world buckler use.
it absolutely does not. Holding a buckler while holding something else would be about as easy as holding a baseball bat and anything else, technically possible, but not really a great idea. Bucklers aren't strapped at all, it's just a single bar that you hold onto that is attached to the dome of the shield. while it wouldn't weigh you down like another shield, you're not going to be able to hold a buckler and get a good 2 handed grip at the same time.
however, this is just gamism and fine for balance
That's not true.
Here's an example of holding something with a buckler in hand. It's wielding it effectively that's the problem.
The video also mentions different types of more forgiving buckler handles which might actually be somewhat feasible to effectively grip a weapon with.
Edit: And to be clear, a buckler in game *can't* be wielded with a weapon. It just lets you use your hand for other things, and I think that's perfectly fair.
"This very small shield is a favorite of duelists and quick, lightly armored warriors. It’s typically made of steel and strapped to your forearm. You can Raise a Shield with your buckler as long as you have that hand free or are holding a light object that’s not a weapon in that hand."
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if you are only using a buckler i can imagine you being able to drink a potion but not if your hand is at the back of a kite shield.
just saying.
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“The Backwards World of Pathfinder Shields” sounds like the title of a high concept comedy film.
I’m basically okay with how PF2 shields work, but it takes a LOT for me to bother with a house rule. I’m interested in the thread nonetheless because it seems like it will be edutaining.
The pathfinder buckler is more or less a lantern shield. It'd be used strapped to the arm or attached to a gauntlet and held across your chest using the light to blind your opponent. The only account of its use, written when the things were used, is about a Spanish street fight in 1623 and it goes into little detail being a first hand account of a street fight in the dark from someone being blinded by several tiny lanterns.
Sir Kenelm Digby's street fight
The details are vague and the method of use can only be assumed based on the shape of the items and the intent to blind an opponent. The most famous lantern shield is an absolute monstrosity that can be seen at the Kunsthistorisches Museum, and wielded in no safe and effective manner. Simpler, more sensible version, can be seen with little more than a hooded lantern fixed to the top. As near as I can tell they're curiosities and hand fashioned street fighting weapons, the sort of thing an adventurer could want and would like for fighting in small tunnels against day blind monsters.
All the same, fantasy shield use is completely divorced from historical shield use and would need major changes culminating in the removal of their usefulness with sufficiently heavy armor.
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PF Bucklers I sort of imagined as more akin to a cataphract's buckler than to a duelist's buckler.
A cataphract would strap their buckler to their wrist because they needed to be able to keep it on while also being able to use a bow (and switch to lance at the charge).
A dueling buckler is held out more in front and that does use the hand more than the wrist. But since PF bucklers keep the hand free, well, like I said: I saw it more akin to the cataphract's version.