Elven Curve Blade, Elven Weapon Expertise, and classes proficient with Simple Weapons by default

[LadyLightning]

Hi!

I was wondering, if you're creating an Elven Rogue, and you select Elven Weapon Familiarity, the Elven Curve Blade (an Uncommon Martial Weapon) becomes a Simple Weapon for you, for purposes of proficiency.

Rogues are proficient with Simple Weapons, and gain scaling increases up to Master.

However, at 13th level, there is Elven Weapon Expertise!
(Whenever you gain a class feature that grants you expert or greater proficiency in certain weapons, you also gain that proficiency in longbows, composite longbows, longswords, rapiers, shortbows, composite shortbows, and all elf weapons in which you are trained.)

Is there any real reason for such a character to take Elven Weapon Expertise? If the Elven Curve Blade is treated as Simple, and Rogues' proficiency with Simple Weapons already scales, then it would seem like Elven Curve Blade proficiency would scale just fine with only Elven Weapon Familiarity.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

If martial elf weapons are all you're after then no, there is nothing to be gained by taking Elven Weapon Expertise. OTOH, if you want the longbow and longsword you're also now trained in to scale you'd need it, since those are martial weapons without the elf tag and therefore are still martial for your rogue.

[LadyLightning]

Thank you! I'll probably pass on longbows anyway -- I'm intending to replicate something close to a DEX-based Magus. Unfortunately, only mainclass Rogues get DEX to damage by RAW, apparently, which saddens me a bit, so Rogue with Wizard archetype seems like my only real option.

But that means that I will be able to use cantrips for ranged attacks, at least.

[ofMars]

Magus with curve blade? How will cast spells and attack on the same turn since it's an action to put your hand back on your weapon now?

[Hiruma Kai]

ofMars wrote:

Magus with curve blade? How will cast spells and attack on the same turn since it's an action to put your hand back on your weapon now?

If a spell only has somatic and verbal components, you can cast it with your hands full. Only material component spells require a free hand. Or using a wand or scroll.

[LadyLightning]

Interestingly enough, Pathfinder 2 has done away with free hand requirements for somatic components! And from the way I've read it, releasing your offhand from a weapon is a free action, and only re-gripping it costs an action?

There is also Eschew Materials as a Wizard feat that can be taken through the multiclass archetype!

I could just use a rapier, but the curveblade seems more thematic!

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

LadyLightning wrote:

And from the way I've read it, releasing your offhand from a weapon is a free action, and only re-gripping it costs an action?

Correct on both counts.

[Hiruma Kai]

LadyLightning wrote:

There is also Eschew Materials as a Wizard feat that can be taken through the multiclass archetype!

Eschew materials sadly doesn't remove the need for a free hand. It just removes the need for a component pouch. Only really useful if you're captured or somehow deprived of the pouch.

[ErichAD]

You could pickup the fighter feat "Dual-Handed Assault" leaving your hand free to cast spells then use that hand just long enough for one weapon attack per turn. That's probably all the attacks you'd be making anyway. That leaves you with a fighter/mage/thief and wouldn't work till much higher levels.

[Paradozen]

ErichAD wrote:

You could pickup the fighter feat "Dual-Handed Assault" leaving your hand free to cast spells then use that hand just long enough for one weapon attack per turn. That's probably all the attacks you'd be making anyway. That leaves you with a fighter/mage/thief and wouldn't work till much higher levels.

Doesn't work with the elven curved blade, it requires a 1-handed weapon.

[ErichAD]

Thank you, I missed that. I suppose it'd be cheating to use a free hand weapon to qualify for the feat's use but apply it to a different weapon.

[Pyrofool]

Where are the rules for gripping a hands:2 weapon taking an action. i just read the Hands section in the book and then i searched the actions section, and then i searched the appendix, and could not find anything. I seems to me that you can just hold the weapon in one hand, cast a spell, then regrip the weapon without taking an action. (especially if you have quick draw) I don't see any limitation ion the CRB.

[ErichAD]

Changing your grip to place another hand on an item is an interact action, and interact actions are typically 1 action.
action chart

[Gisher]

Pyrofool wrote:

Where are the rules for gripping a hands:2 weapon taking an action. i just read the Hands section in the book and then i searched the actions section, and then i searched the appendix, and could not find anything. I seems to me that you can just hold the weapon in one hand, cast a spell, then regrip the weapon without taking an action. (especially if you have quick draw) I don't see any limitation ion the CRB.

You'll find this information on the table of equipment-related actions on p. 273 of the CRB.

Changing your grip by taking one hand off of a two-handed weapon is a Release Action and is a free action.

Changing your grip by putting the hand back on the weapon is an Interact Action and takes one Action.

[Pyrofool]

That is bad. It takes 0 concentration to put your free hand on the pommul of the sword. Otherwise half the moves in martial arts would not work. How did they mess that up, along with making us go back and forth in the book to find all this.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

It's not meant for realism, it's meant for game balance.