From the Crafting skill description:
To Craft an item, you must meet the following requirements:
• You have the formula for the item
From the Magical Crafting feat:
You can Craft magic items, though some have other requirements, as listed in Chapter 11. When you select this feat, you gain formulas for four common magic items of 2nd level or lower.
If a wizard has the Magical Crafting feat and wants to scribe a scroll of a spell from his spellbook, what is required?
A: He knows the "scrolls" formula, and can craft a scroll of any spell he knows.
B: He only knows four common scroll formulas of a specific spell, and must purchase additional formulas to scribe any other spells he knows.
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I believe you need to purchase the formulae or learn the formulae to craft a scroll of a level. Not the specific spell.
So you get the level 1 scroll crafting formulae and then use the craft a scroll rules from there on in.
I just got in some ridiculous argument about this. Do you know for sure if the formula is per level of the spell? It would really piss me off if I had to buy a spell and then learn a separate formula to scribe it into a scroll.
It is what matches with other rules elements. Could be a candidate for FAQ.
Keep in mind scrolls aren't just spells written down, they are spells written down and infused with magic so they can be cast without spell slots.
But yeah 99% certain the intent is one scroll formula per spell level, not per spell level or one formula for scrolls of every level.
Wands work this way. And both wand and scroll sections describe them needing a caster present to cast the spell during the creation which to me suggests a blank item before that point.
What other rules elements?
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Now I wonder if you'd need to know the Level Four Fireball Scroll formula separately from the Level Three Fireball Scroll formula. I can understand the desire to have characters need to learn formulae, but I also wonder how well this works in general.
Now I wonder if you'd need to know the Level Four Fireball Scroll formula separately from the Level Three Fireball Scroll formula. I can understand the desire to have characters need to learn formulae, but I also wonder how well this works in general.
One per spell level, not one per spell is my argument.
What other rules elements?
All other crafting activities use a formula of the same level to the item you end up with and base themselves off of an item.
Scrolls
The process to Craft a scroll is much like that to Craft any other magic item. When you begin the crafting process, choose a spell to put into the scroll. You have to either Cast that Spell during the crafting process, or someone else must do so in your presence. Casting that Spell doesn’t produce its normal effects; instead, the magic is trapped inside the scroll. The casting must come from a spellcaster expending a spell slot. You can’t Craft a scroll from a spell produced from another magic item, for example. The caster has to provide any cost of the spell.
Wands
For the most part, the process to Craft a wand is like that to Craft any other magic item. When you begin the crafting process, choose a spell to put into the wand. You have to either cast that spell during the process, or someone else must do so in your presence. That spell doesn’t have its normal effects; instead, the magic is captured inside the wand. The caster doesn’t need to pay any cost of the spell.
The process of setting the spell reads like it is done during the crafting process to me, not set before crafting starts (like with a formula, otherwise you wouldn't have to "choose a spell to put into" as the spell was chosen when you picked up the formula).
The other alternative of obtaining one universal formula for scrolls / wands and having it apply to all spell levels seems a bit too anachronistic to not have a specific rule listed for it in the crafting section, especially as they state "For the most part, the process to Craft a wand is like that to Craft any other magic item." Which is the wrong way to suggest a dramatic divergance like a first level formula being able to craft a level 19 item like a level 10 spell scroll.
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P 293 CRB
Items with Multiple Types
If an item has multiple types of different levels, each
type has its own formula, and you need the formula for
the specific type of item you want to Craft
You need to learn a formula scroll for a level, but because the scroll can accept any spell you cast into it of that level, you don't need a formula for each and every spell
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P 293 CRB
You need to learn a formula scroll for a level, but because the scroll can accept any spell you cast into it of that level, you don't need a formula for each and every spellItems with Multiple Types
If an item has multiple types of different levels, each
type has its own formula, and you need the formula for
the specific type of item you want to Craft
That's a very convenient interpretation, but the rules section you quote could just as easily mean that you need a separate formula for each level of each spell, both for scrolls and for wands.
We still need clarification whether there is just a formula for "1st-level scrolls" and another for "2nd level scrolls" (and so on) or if there is a separate formula for 2nd, 3th and subsequent levels of a dispell magic spell, and a different formula for 1st, 2nd, 3rd and subsequent levels of a magic missile spell.
It's more convenient, by far, to assume the first case. But the RAW that we have is not clear in favoring one solution over the other.
It's more convenient, by far, to assume the first case. But the RAW that we have is not clear in favoring one solution over the other.
Combined with the excerpts from crafting scrolls and crafting wands included by Grognard above, it's pretty clear that you just need the formula for the correct level of the thing you are creating, and the spell being stored is determined during the actual crafting process. Not really a lot to interpret there.
It's more convenient, by far, to assume the first case. But the RAW that we have is not clear in favoring one solution over the other.
Agreed that it is a FAQ candidate, but I would like to hear your reasoning as to why the quotes I mentioned about regarding the order of crafting don't factor in for you.
I agree that a clarification would be very nice to have, but this is another case where one reading of the rules makes an aspect of the game utterly complicated and unbalanced, while another works much better. Who cares about which one is 'more RAW'?
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I agree that a clarification would be very nice to have, but this is another case where one reading of the rules makes an aspect of the game utterly complicated and unbalanced, while another works much better. Who cares about which one is 'more RAW'?
The Organized Play Team and players care because it is the difference between spending 1/5th of your wealth on Formulas to make the Scrolls for the various Spells you want and spending 100% of your wealth on said Formulas+Spells.
I agree that a clarification would be very nice to have, but this is another case where one reading of the rules makes an aspect of the game utterly complicated and unbalanced, while another works much better. Who cares about which one is 'more RAW'?The Organized Play Team and players care because it is the difference between spending 1/5th of your wealth on Formulas to make the Scrolls for the various Spells you want and spending 100% of your wealth on said Formulas+Spells.
Can't the Organized Play Team just issue a "campaign clarification" making it the way they want? Or are they not doing that in 2nd ed?
The two quoted extracts about scrolls and wands do not specify that a single formula is required for all scrolls, or for all scrolls of a given level, or for each spell of a given level specifically, same for wands.
Scrolls
The process to Craft a scroll is much like that to Craft any other magic item. When you begin the crafting process, choose a spell to put into the scroll. You have to either Cast that Spell during the crafting process, or someone else must do so in your presence. Casting that Spell doesn’t produce its normal effects; instead, the magic is trapped inside the scroll. The casting must come from a spellcaster expending a spell slot. You can’t Craft a scroll from a spell produced from another magic item, for example. The caster has to provide any cost of the spell.Wands
For the most part, the process to Craft a wand is like that to Craft any other magic item. When you begin the crafting process, choose a spell to put into the wand. You have to either cast that spell during the process, or someone else must do so in your presence. That spell doesn’t have its normal effects; instead, the magic is captured inside the wand. The caster doesn’t need to pay any cost of the spell.
That's why I said that having a single formula for all 1st-level wands (for example) is "convenient". It is certainly an easier interpretation to work with in the game, and it's a pity that the rules on formulae aren't specific enough to show that this is the way formulae were supposed to work.
Personally, I rule that scrolls have no "formula" and that anyone with the appropriate magic skill, crafting skill and Magical Crafting feat, as well as knowledge of the spell, can scribe a scroll.
For wands, I have decided that a separate formula will be needed for each individual spell, but not for each level of each individual spell. Having a single formula for all 2nd-level wands seems too easy to me. But the RAW doesn't really help us with this. It's too vague. Question is, was the vague language on scroll and wand formulae intentionally vague, or simply an oversight?
I'm not real happy with the 4-day lead time on crafting either, especially for low-ticket items, but haven't decided to house-rule it. Few of my players are very interested in crafting.