Sheaths and their functions in the game


Rules Discussion


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Do I need to buy a "sheath" for my arrows? My bow?

What does buying and using a sheath actually do for me?

Does it impact my ability to draw a weapon? What if the weapon is concealed? Does having it concealed and in a sheath slow my ability to draw it?


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Gives you a place to store it and draw it from other than the ground.


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Personally I intend to ignore the - bulk 1cp basic items like sheaths. It's nice that they included them for those who want it, but even my RAW-loving self finds that degree of detail overkill.


Xenocrat wrote:
Gives you a place to store it and draw it from other than the ground.

What, don't all archers just wander around with a fist full of 20 arrows?


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Stone Dog wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Gives you a place to store it and draw it from other than the ground.
What, don't all archers just wander around with a fist full of 20 arrows?

I thought archers used quivers, not sheaths. Yet, I can't find any rules for quivers anywhere.


Ravingdork wrote:
Stone Dog wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Gives you a place to store it and draw it from other than the ground.
What, don't all archers just wander around with a fist full of 20 arrows?
I thought archers used quivers, not sheaths. Yet, I can't find any rules for quivers anywhere.

Apparently quivers do exist in PF2. They are mentioned in the description for Ghost Ammunition.

CRB, o. 560 wrote:
After it is launched, the ammunition vanishes into mist. However, in the dead of the night 1d4 days later, it reappears in the last quiver or other container it was taken from.

It just doesn't seem possible to buy one.


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Gisher wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Stone Dog wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Gives you a place to store it and draw it from other than the ground.
What, don't all archers just wander around with a fist full of 20 arrows?
I thought archers used quivers, not sheaths. Yet, I can't find any rules for quivers anywhere.

Apparently quivers do exist in PF2. They are mentioned in the description for Ghost Ammunition.

CRB, o. 560 wrote:
After it is launched, the ammunition vanishes into mist. However, in the dead of the night 1d4 days later, it reappears in the last quiver or other container it was taken from.
It just doesn't seem possible to buy one.

Maybe they are included with the price of the arrows?


I honestly was assuming arrows came in sheaths in packs of 20. or with the bow.


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In the absence of a separate item entry for quivers, I'm just assuming that if I buy a sheath for my arrows it's a quiver.


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I'm just assuming that arrows come with quivers (though that's not explicitly stated anywhere) for the time being.


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They just left it out I am sure. A sheath or waist pouch is probably fine for a stand in. Its not the only thing that was accidentally missed.


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Alenvire wrote:
They just left it out I am sure. A sheath or waist pouch is probably fine for a stand in. Its not the only thing that was accidentally missed.

What else was missed?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

lol, I am drawing a blank. It was not equipment. I saw it yesterday. I will have to think about it and see if I can remember.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Not what I saw yesterday, but, hardness has no game description. You can assume it works on physical, or both physical and magic. But, there is no rules to say what and how it protects against. It just says it reduces damage by this number. Someone else pointed out, what happens if it is hit by a flaming sword. Would it reduce both the flame and sword damage equally? Is all damage just a pool now? Or, does it not effect magic.


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Ravingdork wrote:
Do I need to buy a "sheath" for my arrows? My bow?

Nope.

Ravingdork wrote:
What does buying and using a sheath actually do for me?

You LOOK snazzy? No mechanical benefit as a sword tucked into your belt is mechanically the same as one in a sheath.

Ravingdork wrote:
Does it impact my ability to draw a weapon?

Nope.

Ravingdork wrote:
What if the weapon is concealed?

Doesn't matter: it's the same number of actions to pull a carefully sheathed dagger as it is to take a knife out of someone elses pocket.

Ravingdork wrote:
Does having it concealed and in a sheath slow my ability to draw it?

Interact Action: "You can grab an unattended or stored object, open a door, or produce some similar effect." That's a stored item.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Every sword and possibly every knife I've ever purchased came with a scabbard or a sheathe. It seems silly and pedantic to clutter up a character sheet with things we would naturally assume a character has. "Clothing" is a single entry, but we can well assume it includes whatever pieces are necessary to fully clothes someone, we don't list socks, pants, shirt, and undies separately unless they are noteworthy in some way.

The GM can keep the 1cp if they like, and I'll keep the clutter off my sheet.

Exo-Guardians

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Laithoron wrote:

Every sword and possibly every knife I've ever purchased came with a scabbard or a sheathe. It seems silly and pedantic to clutter up a character sheet with things we would naturally assume a character has. "Clothing" is a single entry, but we can well assume it includes whatever pieces are necessary to fully clothes someone, we don't list socks, pants, shirt, and undies separately unless they are noteworthy in some way.

The GM can keep the 1cp if they like, and I'll keep the clutter off my sheet.

To each their own. Personally I like having things like sheaths, belt pouches, scroll cases, etc explicitly in the game (and I wish there were more types of clothing called out as well). But there's no mechanical requirement to use such items, so those that don't feel the same way can easily just ignore them. Win-win.


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Who needs a quiver when you can fit 40 arrows in a belt pouch?


I have always found tracking stuff like containers, etc, is occasionally interesting for simulationism in character creation, but too fiddly for use in game. That said I'd like to understand it better.

So if I'm reading RAW correctly: You start as a naked version of yourself with 150 silver pieces in your hands.

You Buy clothes: Ordinary clothing is 1sp no bulk. Described as:

Core RuleBook pg. 287 wrote:
Ordinary clothing is functional with basic tailoring, such as peasant garb, monk’s robes, or work clothes.

I think it is reasonable to assume this means you get a tunic (between waist and knee-length, sleeves or no sleeves, no pockets). You get leather boots. You get underwear appropriate to your character's body, which will be hand-waved because there's no need to get detailed about it. You get any simple, non-mechanically beneficial additional flourishes that would make sense for your climate and culture, like a simple hat or a turban, etc. For modern sensibility, and to match the art, I'll also include simple trousers with a simple belt, capable of holding up your clothes and any attached pouches by being pulled tight (i.e. items can't be easily slotted in between your belt and clothing). No pockets! Explorer's clothes can be more durable, include a better hat, stronger boots, leather panels, etc. But the theme here is: no pockets! simple, tight belt! Core assumption being that clothes don't give you a way to carry things by default. Feel free to interpret this differently as you want. I'm not a clothes throughout history scholar, but I think that seems a reasonable interpretation of RAW. And makes the containers make sense to me.

Let's examine the worn containers available. They don't have a keyword that makes them worn, but I think this is a second reasonable assumption.

Core RuleBook pg. 287 wrote:
Backpack: A backpack holds up to 4 Bulk of items. If you’re carrying or stowing the pack rather than wearing it on your back, its bulk is light instead of negligible.

You can carry items your person without hands: any collection up to 4 bulk.

Interact to retrieve/stow. Requires two free hands.

Core RuleBook pg. 287 wrote:

Bandolier: A bandolier holds up to eight items of light Bulk within easy reach and is usually used for alchemical items or potions. If you are carrying or stowing a bandolier rather than wearing it around your chest, it has light Bulk instead of negligible. A bandolier can be dedicated to a full

set of tools, such as healer’s tools, allowing you to draw the
tools as part of the action that requires them

You can carry items your person without hands: 8 distinct light Bulk items or one set of tools.

Interact, or free action as part of action to use item, to retrieve/stow. Requires one free hand.

Core RuleBook pg. 287 wrote:
Belt Pouch: A belt pouch holds up to four items of light Bulk.

You can carry items your person without hands: 4 items of light bulk.

Interact to retrieve/stow. Requires one free hand.
(Not explicit, but I assume you need clothes, to attach this too. And I would allow unlimited negligible bulk items with the normal caveat: unless you try to carry vast numbers
of them, as determined by the GM)

Core RuleBook pg. 287 wrote:

Sack: A sack can hold up to 8 Bulk worth of items. A sack containing 2 Bulk or less can be worn on the body, usually tucked into a belt. You can carry a sack with one

hand, but must use two hands to transfer items in and out.

You can carry items your person without hands: any collection up to 2 bulk. Exceeding this requires a hand to carry the sack up to the 8 Bulk limit.

Interact to retrieve/stow. Requires two free hands.
Has light Bulk even when worn.

Core RuleBook pg. 287 wrote:
Satchel: A satchel can hold up to 2 Bulk worth of items.

You can carry items your person without hands: any collection up to 2 bulk.

Interact to retrieve/stow. Requires two free hands.
(Same cost as a backpack, no distinct benefits, but if you don't need four bulk, and you might have to carry it it's slightly better at that)

Core RuleBook pg. 287 wrote:
Sheath: A sheath or scabbard lets you easily carry a weapon on your person.

You can carry items your person without hands: one weapon.

Interact to retrieve/stow. Requires one free hand.
[i](This presumably covers the concept of belt loops and slings on your back for holding weapons like axes and bows, and so on).[i]

I think this actually covers a lot of storage and retrieval situations with a two exceptions that jump out at me.

Material Component Pouch It feels like RAW says you need the pouch in a bandolier or in your hand already to use it normally. The spells section however says:

Quote:
The spell gains the manipulate trait and requires you to have a free hand to retrieve and manipulate a material component.

which implies that the material component pouch functions like a bandolier, and is worn. I'm going to go with that, seems reasonable and consistent. Pouches are worn.

Ammunition Yes. I'm making a show of being on topic. It seems like a quiver is actually a bandolier, in the same way that a bow sling is a sheath. So you can hold up to 8 bunches of 10 ammo, which can be freely used and drawn while making strikes with the bow if you start that action with a free hand.

TL;DR: As long as you don't take pockets or belts that capably hold items for granted as part of clothing, most of the containers have a purpose and a use.

Quote:
Do I need to buy a "sheath" for my arrows? My bow?

You need a bandolier for your arrows, describe as a quiver though, no need to be too silly. If you want to stow your bow on your person you need a sheath, describe it as a bow sling. Otherwise keep it in your hand or leave it in a square.

Quote:
What does buying and using a sheath actually do for me? Does it impact my ability to draw a weapon?

It lets you not have a weapon in hand, but still have it in the square your character is in. It lets you draw the weapon into one hand as an interact action requiring only one free hand.

Quote:
What if the weapon is concealed? Does having it concealed and in a sheath slow my ability to draw it?

No idea. The Conceal an Object doesn't mention affecting how the weapon is drawn. So RAW it doesn't seem to matter. If that seems odd to you, rule that you need an interact to un-conceal the sheath or container before objects can be retrieved from it.


The Sesquipedalian Thaumaturge wrote:
Who needs a quiver when you can fit 40 arrows in a belt pouch?

60 in PF1e, the only restriction was breaking them up so they would fit into the size limits. Good thing mending was an easily accessible cantrip ;) :P

Jokes aside, I am on the fence regarding whether details regarding bag volume is necessary or not. It stops nitpick arguments and gives guidelines, however I am not sure people who cannot abide "common sense" rulings really have the brainpower to read the rules in the first place.

This all said, retrieving ammunition from a pouch even if you do assume it can fit into it would have to be an action. As retrieving anything else from a pouch is an action.

Quivers should exist imo.


Example:

Str 10 Rogue.

Bought the adventurer's pack (which seems to be 1.9 Bulk, not 2), but swapped 2 torches for 2 sheaths.

Key:
{Bulk of Item, or total Bulk of items in containers, don't double count}
[W] = Worn
[[
contained in last mentioned item
]]

=Equipment=
Bulk = 5 Max [5.0 Current]
sheath {1} [W]
[[
rapier {1} [W]
]]
sheath ("bow sling") {1} [W]
[[
short bow {1}
]]
bandolier ("quiver") {0.2} [W]
[[
arrow (10) {0.1}
arrow (10) {0.1}
]]
leather armor {1} [W]
backpack {1.7} [W]
[[
bedroll {0.1}
piece of chalk (10) {-}
flint and steel {-}
50 feet of rope {0.1}
rations (14) {0.2}
soap {-}
torch (3) {0.3}
waterskin ("filled at start of day") {1}
]]
belt pouch {} [W]
[[
40 sp {-}
]]
belt pouch {0.1} [W]
[[
thieves' tools {0.1}
]]
ordinary clothing {-} [W]

So our rogue can't really pick up or carry any new items without becoming encumbered, BUT could always use an interact action to drop their backpack giving them 1.7 Bulk wiggle room. The containers don't add bulk, so using containers isn't a penalty compared to hand waving pockets and belts in clothes storage.

Say they is scouting ahead of the party, having left their back pack with the Fighter who has Bulk to spare.

Say a fight is about to start. They has their bow drawn. They can make a Strike action with the bow in their first action. They have the bow in one hand already. They have a hand free to satisfy the requirements of the bows 1+ Hands, and the bandolier-quiver's hand required to interact. Their action involves retrieving an arrow from their bandolier, then using two hands to draw and fire the bow.

Say they then wants to get into melee, they can draw their rapier from it's sheath as an interact action with one hand (they have one free when not firing the bow, they would have to drop the bow to use a weapon in a backpack though). They can then Stride into range and Strike.

Say their foe is fleeing, they can drop the rapier as a free action and fire their bow again with their first action.

Or they're in melee but needs to use their thieves' tools (or more likely a potion they acquired), they can drop their bow as a free action, retrieve the potion/tools from their belt pouch as an Interact action, then use them as another Interact action. They don't have to drop their rapier to use items in their belt pouch.


The Gleeful Grognard wrote:
The Sesquipedalian Thaumaturge wrote:
Who needs a quiver when you can fit 40 arrows in a belt pouch?

60 in PF1e, the only restriction was breaking them up so they would fit into the size limits. Good thing mending was an easily accessible cantrip ;) :P

Jokes aside, I am on the fence regarding whether details regarding bag volume is necessary or not. It stops nitpick arguments and gives guidelines, however I am not sure people who cannot abide "common sense" rulings really have the brainpower to read the rules in the first place.

This all said, retrieving ammunition from a pouch even if you do assume it can fit into it would have to be an action. As retrieving anything else from a pouch is an action.

Quivers should exist imo.

I really think they are functionally bandoliers. Bandoliers RAW let you draw as part of the action to use, and can hold up to 80 ammunition (8 light Bulk bundles of 10). Bandoliers and sheaths should just have a line in the CRB stating that they represent quivers, and other similar function containers, and sheaths represent bow slings, and axe belt loops, and other similar function containers. Make it more clear and explicit.


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vagrant-poet wrote:
Bandoliers RAW let you draw as part of the action to use

Not exactly. Bandoliers let you draw a set of tools as part of the action to use them. That ability does not work on things other than tools.


Poit wrote:
Not exactly. Bandoliers let you draw a set of tools as part of the action to use them. That ability does not work on things other than tools.

I'm still not sure what this is supposed to look like in case I'm carrying artisan's tools for my blacksmith character in their bandolier. Presumably that does not include the anvil? Does my bandolier contain literal hammerspace?


Ravingdork wrote:

Do I need to buy a "sheath" for my arrows? My bow?

What does buying and using a sheath actually do for me?

Does it impact my ability to draw a weapon? What if the weapon is concealed? Does having it concealed and in a sheath slow my ability to draw it?

Well, if your DM is really picky about things;

non-magic sword could rust sooner or get blunted sooner(penalty to damage),

If you fall or tumble you could cut yourself on the exposed sword that is hanging from your side or behind your back(you cannot draw from a back sheath anything larger that some very short swords, but that is another topic).

You could also damage some of your gear with exposed blade.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Poit wrote:
Not exactly. Bandoliers let you draw a set of tools as part of the action to use them. That ability does not work on things other than tools.
I'm still not sure what this is supposed to look like in case I'm carrying artisan's tools for my blacksmith character in their bandolier. Presumably that does not include the anvil? Does my bandolier contain literal hammerspace?

Do you have an anvil as part of your 2 bulk set of artisan's tools? I assumed it was just stuff like a hammer, tongs, etc.


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vagrant-poet wrote:
Ammunition Yes. I'm making a show of being on topic. It seems like a quiver is actually a bandolier, in the same way that a bow sling is a sheath. So you can hold up to 8 bunches of 10 ammo, which can be freely used and drawn while making strikes with the bow if you start that action with a free hand.

You can't actually put usable ammo in a bandolier as ONLY L items or sets of tools fit in them. "A bandolier holds up to eight items of light Bulk within easy reach and is usually used for alchemical items or potions": not 'up to light bulk'. So to put ammo in one, you'd need to put 10 in a belt pouch before it'll magically attach to one. This means that even if it was a free action to pull non tool items off one for free, you'd still need to pull the ammo out of the pouch.

Poit wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Poit wrote:
Not exactly. Bandoliers let you draw a set of tools as part of the action to use them. That ability does not work on things other than tools.
I'm still not sure what this is supposed to look like in case I'm carrying artisan's tools for my blacksmith character in their bandolier. Presumably that does not include the anvil? Does my bandolier contain literal hammerspace?
Do you have an anvil as part of your 2 bulk set of artisan's tools? I assumed it was just stuff like a hammer, tongs, etc.

Look at the Repair Kit "It contains a portable anvil, tongs, woodworking tools, a whetstone, and oils for conditioning leather and wood." ONE Bulk!!!

PS: and let me say what the heck is in the alchemist kit that makes it 2 bulk when a kit that has a PORTABLE ANVIL in it is 1 bulk...


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graystone wrote:

Look at the Repair Kit "It contains a portable anvil, tongs, woodworking tools, a whetstone, and oils for conditioning leather and wood." ONE Bulk!!!

PS: and let me say what the heck is in the alchemist kit that makes it 2 bulk when a kit that has a PORTABLE ANVIL in it is 1 bulk...

Wow, that is a very portable anvil.

Then sure, you can totally put a mini anvil and related tools (together being a repair kit or a set of artisan's tools) in a bandolier.


The alchemist’s kit bulk is a steal for infinite glass vials.


Xenocrat wrote:
The alchemist’s kit bulk is a steal for infinite glass vials.

I assume there's also a small adjustable gas burner with an indefatigable fuel source.

Which you can whip out, ignite, distill something, bottle the results, and put away within 6 seconds still having 2 actions to spare.


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Poit wrote:
Wow, that is a very portable anvil.

Yes. Yes, it is.


Xenocrat wrote:
The alchemist’s kit bulk is a steal for infinite glass vials.

Not really as far as bulk is concerned. You need to carry a "carry vast numbers of them" before they even count as a single L item... At best it's a alchemists Material Component Pouch, which is one whole L as far as bulk. :P

PossibleCabbage wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
The alchemist’s kit bulk is a steal for infinite glass vials.
I assume there's also a small adjustable gas burner with an indefatigable fuel source.

Why, torches/candles never run out so you can just keep one burning in your kit... just add some alchemical additives to adjust the temp.

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