prismaticsoul's page

Another question is if all 5 of the domains in this class (the 4 you start with and the extra one granted by Nature Bond)...do you have to stick with those, or can you modify to subdomains?

Although Kobold Quarterly is technically 3rd party, I have questions about how their Godai druid might interact with other classes, or with certain Pathfinder druid archetypes.

Godai druid appears in KQ #15 starting on page 10, and it seems to be to be a really great baseline class:

You cast divine spells drawn from the Air, Earth, Fire, and Water cleric domains. You can cast any spell you know without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, you must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The DC for a saving throw against your spell is 10 + the spell level + your Wisdom modifier. Like other spell-casters, you can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day (see Table 2: Godai Druid). In addition, you receive bonus spells per day for a high Wisdom score. Your selection of spells is extremely limited. You know all the spells on the Air, Earth, Fire, and Water cleric domain spell lists that you are high enough level to cast. Additionally, whenever you gain access to a new spell level, you learn the summon nature’s ally spell of that spell level. Although you prefer to summon elementals and creatures of energy subtypes, your selection is not limited; for example, at 3rd level, you know and can cast burning hands, obscuring mist, magic stone, and summon nature’s ally I. Upon reaching 4th level (and thus gaining access to 2nd level spells), you can also cast fog cloud, produce flame, soften earth and stone, summon nature’s ally II, and wind wall. Unlike a traditional druid, you need not prepare your spells in advance. You can cast any spell you know at any time, assuming you have spells remaining for the day for that spell level.

By drawing spells from a specific divine force, you unlock new powers few other druids command. You gain access to the following four cleric domains: Air, Earth, Fire, and Water. You derive your entire spell list from these four domains (as well as summon nature’s ally spells). When determining the powers granted by

these domains, your effective cleric level is equal to your druid level.

This ability functions like that for the standard

druid except you can choose one of the following cleric domains: Animal,
Plant, or Weather. You add the spells gained from your chosen domain to
your spells known and can cast them just like any other spell you know.

Godai druids get no Orisons (ie 0 level spells). Their spell progression casting wise I think is similar to Sorcerer aside from cantrips (ie 3+wis mod 1st level slots at level 1 progressing to 6+wis mod slots for all 9 spell levels @ 20th.) Godai appear to lose nothing else, with the only other notable thing being a delayed Wild shape development (they don't start wild shaping until 5th level and cap at at will by 20th level).

As far as questions: what happens if a Godai gains domains from another class (perhaps a 1 level dip in 3.5e Cloistered Cleric, any other base class, or any of the multitude of prestige classes that add domains)? Would these count for his/her spells known, and thus be spontaneous as well? Since this class HAS domains, does it get a domain slot per spell level? Are these prepared slots, or spontaneous as well...as written, I'd assume yes to domain slots (since Domains says it works per Cleric domains) but the casting style eludes me, and aside from fluff text from the beginning of the article, everything written on the class is here.

Finally, would giving up SNA spells be worth it for Urban or Storm archetypes? The only real appeal of these was spontaneous domain casting, and it seems to me that Godai has it built in.

Thank you very much in advance for helping me understand this class better and how it might interact meaningfully with classes outside of itself!

The Godai Druid isn't on the srd (that I can see) so I don't know how it works.

Still, seems weird to me that it'd give you 4 domains instead of the 1 you would get otherwise.
Neither are the Sovereign Speaker or the Contemplative - although that last one I remember from old 3.5, if that's what you're using ?

First, mixing editions - and 3pp for different editions on top of that - is bound to create weirdness, so you better make sure your GM is okay with everything.

Also, Domain progression (in PF at least, but probably 3.5 too, it's been a minute) is based on your class level, and so is channeling DC (not that any of the elemental domains gives any rebuke/command options, btw), so you'd forever be quite late as a Druid, and never great as a Cleric (assuming your prestige classes do advance domains, which I think the Contemplative does ?).

All in all, you'd need to detail your options a bit for a better answer, because I'm probably not the only one who hasn't looked at true 3rd edition d&d in a long, long time.

The 3rd party subforum might be a better place too, considering.

Honestly did not think about that; are there any portions of the forums that would be better to post at when mixing and matching d20 resources?

Anyone?

So I'm theory-crafting for a cleric build that focuses on domain acquisition and rebuking/commanding; looking over options, I really like the idea of a 1 level dip into Godai Druid from Kobold Quarterly #15 (they gain access to all 4 prime element domains [earth, air, fire, water]) at level 1.

Looking at the idea of using GD 1/Cleric x/Contemplative 6/Sovereign Speaker 9 as the build. As I was looking at ways of spontaneously casting domain spells, I found the feats and the old cleric ACF from D&D to be lacking, until I came across Urban and Storm archetypes for druid in Pathfinder books.

Both archetypes state that you can cast any domain spells you know spontaneously, and neither state specifically that they must be from druid domains...so would this work for any cleric, Contemplative, & Sovereign Speaker domains?

Can I still take Urban or Storm archetypes for a Godai druid?

This is my idea for a generalist Wizard that exemplifies what I think  First King Xin (the founder of Thassilon) would be like; the idea was to make the caster as versatile as possible without crushing its ability to do anything too badly.  It should be noted that this design is probably flawed (hence me posting it on here for feedback) and that it is a blend of 3/3.5/pathfinder.  It is NOT meant for PFS, and is meant for my groups typical throw it all in a blender and let's see what happens play style.  At this point, the group as a whole has only banned Divine Metamagic and Vow of Poverty.
 
The biggest concern with the build is at 1st level; I REALLY want this caster to be able to use Eidetic Spellcaster and Wheel of the Sun and Moon as well as the Exploiter archetype (I know it’s a case of wanting too much), however, it's really flavorful to me (Xin is this BIG BAD master magi after all), and I'm hoping most DMs would find the huge feat tax up front to be a trade they could be ok with.
 
Xin Steelleaf
 
Neutral male elf (or human if DM ok's humans being able to be trained as Elven Generalists) wizard – Fleet-footed alternate race power, Warrior of Old trait, Elven Generalist Wizard (Races of the Wild – gain a bonus spell slot at your highest spell level as well as 2 bonus spells known per level.) 1st level alternate race class, then taking normal Exploiter Wizard to 20.
 
Archetype/Alternate Class features:  Exploiter archetype (Advanced Class Guide – lose the ability to specialize and wizards arcane school to gain an arcanist's exploits), Domain Wizard ACF (Unearthed Arcana – give up the ability to specialize and gain a domain [can be preset or homebrewed with DM] like a cleric [no domain powers per se, but gain a spell slot of each spell level you know with a fixed spell in that slot].), Wizard of Sun & Moon ACF (Dungeonscape – gain the ability to designate a slot of each spell level as Sun and Moon; splits the slot to allow 2 prepared spells in the slot, one that can be cast outside/during daytime [Sun slot], and one that can be cast at night/underground [Moon slot]; casting one consumes the other.), Eidetic Spellcaster ACF (Dragon #357 – learn new spells as normal, but your brain is your spellbook.), Spontaneous Divination ACF (Complete Champion)
 
1st – Colligate Wizard (Complete Arcane – requires 13 Int.  Start with 6  1st level spells known + 1 per point of INT mod, gain 4 additional spells known per wizard level gained & +2 untyped bonus to know: arcana checks), Iron Will [flaw], Familiar Bond (Familiar Folio – requires Iron Will [used as tax for Wizard of the Sun & Moon - Dungeonscape]) [flaw], Arcane Exploit – Bloodline development (Arcane – Familiar [used as tax for Eidetic Spellcaster – Dragon #357 page 89]).  If human is allowed to take Elven Generalist then take Alacritous Cogitation (Complete Mage) as well.
 
3rd – Nexus Method (Dragon #319 – requires ability to cast arcane spells. Adds several options to wizard bonus feat selection and sac a prepared non-conjuration spell to spontaneously cast a Summon Monster spell of equal level or lower – follows the spontaneous casting rules)
 
5th – Alacritous Cogitation (if elf) OR Versatile Spellcaster (Races of the Dragon – requires ability to spontaneously cast spells [both Nexus Method and Spontaneous Divination should allow qualification) if human, Spontaneous Divination (Complete Champion – requires 5th level wizard bonus feat.  Sac a prepared spell to spontaneously cast any divination spell of equal or lesser level [pre errata, this meant ANY Divination regardless of list or knowing the spell in question, post errata, this meant any divination on the Wiz/Sorc list that the caster actually had in their spellbook – follows the spontaneous casting rules), Arcane Exploit – Familiar (Greensting Scorpion)
 
7th – Miser with Magic (Kingdoms of Kalamar – requires caster level of 7 or greater.  Allows to make Spellcraft checks after casting spells to retain the spell instead of losing it; can only be used on a number of spell levels equal to your INT mod per day, though in any combination.  Interestingly counts as a metamagic feat.)
 
9th – Sacred Geometry (Occult Mysteries – requires 13 INT and know: engineering. Roll d6s based off know: engineering to full round cast spells with free metamagic) (Dazing & Maximize), Arcane Exploit – Dimensional Slide
 
10th – Wizard bonus feat – Planned Spontaneity (Pathfinder Society Primer – requires 4th level spells & know: arcana 9.  Prep up to 3 spells slots of different spell levels that are lower than your highest spell level with 2 different spells instead of 1; when either is cast, the whole slot is spent.)
 
11th – Sacred Geometry (Occult Mysteries – requires 13 INT and know: engineering. Roll d6s based off know: engineering to full round cast spells with free metamagic) (Echoing & Piercing)
 
13th – Leadership, Arcane Exploit – Potent Magic
 
15th – Residual Magic (Complete Mage – requires Spellcraft 12 & 1 metamagic feat [Miser with Magic is marked as metamagic and should allow qualification.  Adds 2 tactical options when casting spells; important one is lingering metamagic, which lets you cast a spell with the same name as a spell cast the round prior affected with metamagic, and allows you to choose one of those metamagic effects and apply it to the current casting with no increased casting time or higher spell slot being consumed.], Wizard bonus feat – Spell Mastery
 
17th – Sacred Geometry (Occult Mysteries – requires 13 INT and know: engineering. Roll d6s based off know: engineering to full round cast spells with free metamagic) (Selective & Quicken), Arcane Exploit – Quick Study
 
19th – Uncanny Forethought (Exemplars of Evil – requires Spell Mastery & INT 17.  Allows you to choose a number of spell slots up to your INT mod to leave empty, which can then be used to cast spells of that slots level [or you can use a higher level slot for a lower level spell]   you have marked with Spell Mastery on the fly, or cast ANY spell of that slots level [or you can use a higher level slot for a lower level spell]  you know as a full round action @ -2 caster levels)
 
20th – Wizard Bonus Feat – Discovery: Immortality
 
About the only things I couldn't shove in that I REALLY wanted on this guy was Craft Contingent Spell (Complete Arcane – spend gold and xp to make any spell you know a contingent spell – should stack with Contingency and similar spell based triggered protections), and Inscribe Rune, as I couldn't find much else that would exemplify Xin's access to Rune Magic.
 
Any thoughts/comments/critiques, or changes you would make to form the ultimate generalist wizard?

*dot*

Well, I would find a set of Lunarian brothers who showed great potential, then use my evil moon powers to control one into being evil, but foolishly leave the other completely unattended on the nearby blue planet where he could grow into a mighty hero.

DO NOT QUESTION THE MASTER PLAN!! >.< lol

Personally I would build him based on his appearance in the two Dissidia games. There he's a very physical spellcaster so any of skald, bloodrager (steelblood), or bard (arcane duelist) could work to model such a character.

I haven't played Dissidia, so thats interesting. Then again I was planning on using Channel Smite, Smite Good, & a conductive weapon for ToC hits, so maybe that would be enough foreshadowing of what he'd be like heading into Dissidia.

Feel like rolling a Dissidia version to show off as an example? :-D

variant multiclassing just give some class features and revelation, you happen to get increase the level of your curse, blackened curse give some fire spells. It would just be added on top of Arcane duelist.

Oracle variant multiclassing with arcane duelist, you can pick also the battle mystery, to get skill at arms, making proficient with all the martial weapons but technically doesn't matter as much. Flame Mystery also could be used for burning magic making you do more damage with fire spells.

If you just want cha synergy...just make an oracle, don't even need to go into any other class. Divine protection feat is way too strong and many of the mysteries have cha based abilities. Just make him a Samsaran, to add offensive spells from the Shaman list (they have some arcane spells there) , pick the battle mystery (Skill at arms) to get proficiency with all armors and martial weapons. You could even add Variant Multiclassing Magus so at the highest level you can shoot two 9 level spells at the same time, representing his fast casting ability with a magus arcana.

It wasn't just about CHA synergy...since Cecil eventually becomes a paladin in game, I thought it would be a lil humorous if his brother was an antipally.

I'm kinda iffy about using any actual divine magic per se (1 of many reasons I think Dread Vanguard archetype fits Golbez's theme so much, since it cans the APs divine casting). To me, generally, for an FF Pathfinder/D&D campaign, divine magic equates white magic, while arcane equates black magic...lets not even consider time or blue magic! >.<

Arcane Duelist (Bard) , so you'll be able to wear full plate and cast arcane spells without arcane spell failure at level 16. Now the problem you need some offensive arcane spells to represent his blasting power, your options are:

1) Samsaran with mystic past life, get evocation spells from the sorcerer/wizard list. its good, problem you aren't human.

2) Just use the bard shadow line of spells, like shadow evocation.

3) if you use Mythic, you can get the arcane knowledge mythic power, granting you arcane spells to cast. Obviously take the dual path champion/archmage.

4) Variant Multiclassing from unchained, take oracle with the blackened curse, will add a bunch of blasting spells to your list.

Hadn't considered a bard base at all...totally something to look into.

Race doesn't matter tooooo much, as technically both Golbez & Cecil are half human/half Lunarian...an exotic race like Samsaran might be a good representation of that. I just defaulted to human since they are the best "be whatever race" imo.

Hmmm...The only downside is that I LOVE the anitpally's CHA synergy with Summoner. Maybe some mixed build like AP 4/ADB 16 | MSS 20 would be good.

Oracle is pretty good too, but haven't really delved into Unchained too much. How can that rep Golbez's plate armor looking wearing sprite?

Thanks for the suggestions! :-)

*dot*

So I've been working on and off on my own idea of how to build Golbez from FF4 (current concept is a gestalt Dread Vanguard Antipaladin/Master Summoner Summoner [unchained or not doesn't matter, though honestly, chained has far more "useful" spells]). The concept I have doesn't fit Golbez to a t, but I think it comes off as the closest general concept.

Something I just thought of was...how would other people attempt to build such a character. Maybe I'd find ideas that I could meld into my own concept, or perhaps run across a build that makes more sense to me than my own.

Gol-Beez, Dark Warlord (based off golbez – kinkkayjay.deviantart.com & Shadow – finalfantasykingdom.net)
CE Human Dread Vanguard Antipaladin/Master Summoner Summoner (Gestalt)
Stats (assumes 25 point buy system):
STR: 18/+4 (+2 human racial)
DEX: 15/+2
CON: 12/+1
INT: 8/-1
WIS: 8/-1
CHA: 16/+2
Initiative: 4 (DEX bonus + trait bonus)
Saves/Attack/Defense:
Fort: 3 (+2 antipaladin +1 CON bonus)
Ref: 2 (+0 antipaladin +2 DEX bonus)
Will: 1 (+2 antipaladin -1 WIS penalty)
BAB: +1 (+1 antipaladin)
AC: (most likely will stick with light armor to reduce ASF)
Traits: Twinned Presence (+1 trait bonus to Intimidate, if eidolon is summoned and within 30 feet and bigger than you, use its size bonus for Intimidate checks), Reactionary (+2 on Initiative checks).

1st level: Combat Reflexes, Power Attack
2nd level: Augment Summoning (bonus feat from Master Summoner)
3rd level: Superior Summoning
5th level: Channel Smite
7th level: Leadership (dragoon-esque cohort to represent Kain)
9th level: Vital Strike
11th level: Command Undead
13th level: Devastating Strike
15th level: Improved Vital Strike
17th level: Improved Devastating Strike
19th level: Greater Vital Strike

Eidolon:
Shadow
Serpentine base form: Medium size, speed: 20 ft, climb 20 ft. AC: +2 natural armor. Saves: Fort bad, Ref good, Will good. Attack: bite (1d6), tail slap (1d6). Stats: STR 12, DEX 16, CON 13, INT 7, WIS 10, CHA 11. Free evolutions: bite, climb, reach (bite), tail, tail slap. Evolution points @ lv 1 = 3

Shadow will be stunted due to Master Summoner, but its aim will be to be as large as possible, with any kind of Swallow Whole affect it can have, since they don't have access to a paralyzing gas or instant death attack.

As for suggested builds, lv 20 cap. gestalt build at most. Any sources are fine. Hopefully this gets some hits! :-)

That's a pretty interesting thought. But as VRMH said, did you have some adventure plots in mind? Survival is a big thing, but there's plenty of other stuff you could run with this. As Big G$%@!%n Heroes, perhaps things like trying to evacuate a city falling into the darklands, by moving the people into a somewhat habitable part of some inner plane (likely the elemental plane of air or earth)?

That actually might be THE hook to use...such a dramatic shift in the "natural order" would probably alarm the neutral entities of the Inner planes...perhaps they would see this as an opportunity to expand their power on this thread of existence, or perhaps they would seek to work with druids to restore balance (ie re-cage Rovagug's essence and restore the Material plane's connection to the outer realms); at the very least, isn't there a handful of beings in the Inner planes powerful enough to grant divine magic?

Alternatively, this sounds like Dark Sun for Golarion...defilers anyone? :-p

Dot. Good starting ideas for making LoL based champs. Much love!

prismaticsoul wrote:

@dire_insomniac - is there any plan on allowing the weapon eidolon take a shape other than weapon form (ala the various weapons in SoulReaper)?

Can you provide more information or specifics on that?

Oops...the anime is called Soul Eater, not SoulReaper...lol. Wiki link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_Eater_(manga)

@dire_insomniac - is there any plan on allowing the weapon eidolon take a shape other than weapon form (ala the various weapons in SoulReaper)?

One thing that is kinda glossed over in this conversation is the Knights purpose: although they can and do use their powers to fight evil in its varied forms, the Knights defining purpose is to keep the Denarians in check, either by redeeming their hosts when possible, or killing their hosts outright. Even if you aren't interested in bringing the Denarians to PF, you should make a cadre of suitable foils for the Knights be be combating.

This small group is here for a focused purpose, not just for fighting evil in general.

Finally, as far as the weapons are concerned, I agree with the idea that these are artifact level items, and not say legacy weapons from 3.5e. Each is historically tied, each is for the most part identical in what they can accomplish, each has a specific act that can unmake them, and each is so persistant on their plane of origin that they can be remade with true acts of faith (re: Butters restoring Fidelacchius from a broken blade with nothing but a hilt left into a freakin LIGHTSABER in Skin Game). For static powers, I would think a combination of bane (evil), merciful (remember, the knights main goal is redemption when possible, and subduing is better than killing) or compassionate, transformative (only when going from one user to another), and a stronger version of negating (the swords bypass all defenses). The + value of these weapons fluxs from foe to foe, being as powerful as needed to combat a given foe.

His mercies are more in the neighborhood of dispels and immunities, removing magical conditions more then actual physical healing.

He burns the swarm off Harry in Skin Game, and removes Mab's tampering with Harry's head in Summer Knight. He holds back the darkness in the train station, and the shadow of Andurial.

healing is a rare thing in Harry's world...either you heal yourself supernaturally or not much at all, people who can heal others are very rare and/or extremely powerful. Seems to be an outgrowth of shapechanging, or simply massive vitality. Since healing is MUCH easier in PF, Michael would do fine as a PF paladin.

His Detect Evil is more a Find the Path, kicking on when he's got something to do, leading him to where he needs to be. Very deus ex machina, but that's the whole idea behind it as being a Fist of God.

==Aelryinth

I like this idea a lot. Slap on a method to make evil creatures think twice about touching a Knight of the Cross, and you would be good to go, assuming you want to roll them as paladins.

prismaticsoul wrote:

Will there be limitations on evolution weapon properties? You say the eidolon has to be bound to a masterwork weapon, however, ALL magic weapons are automatically considered/must be masterwork quality.

Without any rules in place that stop it, in theory (and granted I haven't read the linked file because I'm at work), a weapon binder could find or make a +x whatever weapon with x properties, and THEN tack on even more properties via evolution points.

Could be cool...or insane/broken. >.<

The eidolon is able to be bound into an enchanted weapon on the basis that the price modifiers for the weapon properties reduce the total points in the evolution pool by an equal amount.

For example a flaming keen longsword would reduce the total points available by 2.

So they might only be able to tack on a few more abilities, or perhaps nothing overwhelmingly powerful...that seems pretty decent. >.<

prismaticsoul wrote:

The downside to the "going where needed" hook/power, is it is 100% deus ex machina, so it will only really be swallowable if the player knows of this walking into the character creation process.

I'm pretty sure that Deus ex machina is on the Paladin Crest (or maybe eques ex deus?), they are designed to be the cavalry that comes in when all hope seems lost.

That said I feel like a lot of campaigns end up running deus ex machina anyways. Unless the PC's actively mess up they should be able to arrive in the nick of time to save the day. Big damn heroes style.

In a sense, I guess that is true. More so once Divination really gets going. All I was really trying to stress was that in the books and RPG for the Dresden Files, is that those members of Faith never seemed to be in concious control of arriving where needed when needed, and that trying to replicate that facet of being a KotC will require regular DM intervention...mayhaps the reason the higher powers never seem to answer prayers is because they are too busy using their limited intervention in the mortal plane getting these champions to where they need to be? Could be an interesting plot point...esp if the forces of the lower powers are dead set on severing such lines of command and control.

I know about the dresden files RPG and have read though it really liked it, but I can't get a group together for it.

I think the biggest different between a knight of the cross and a pathfinder paladin is that when a knight of the cross has faith it is rewarded. He can be sure if he stays true everything will turn out all right. He can trust the DM. A pathfinder paladin however can be put into double binds and other stupid things.

It's not necessarly about faith alone though; Sanya is repeatedly stated as being either agnostic or atheist, even in light of being a Knight, seeing all that he has seen thus far, having been given Esperacchius by the angel Michael itself (THE archangel perhaps?!...maybe he didn't go with a big show on the mortal planes...). Of the three knights, Sanya is more about a code of living as opposed to true faith...which in and of itself is very knight/paladin-like.

@ yronimos - one could argue that "plot sense" is a motivator or tag/hook for the character, however, its beyond that...the knights literally show up where needed, and often times don't even know their brand of intervention is required until they see events around them. I am not 100% sure if the knights have been translocated via magic to pull off such timely shows of subtle divine might, or if the higher powers merely constantly tweek fate/probability to ensure the knights go where they are foreseen to be needed...most likely, it is a combination of both, and a (SU) mechanic would be needed to allow the character to emulate it (or perhaps its an SU mechanic that only the DM envokes when needed).

The downside to the "going where needed" hook/power, is it is 100% deus ex machina, so it will only really be swallowable if the player knows of this walking into the character creation process.

Will there be limitations on evolution weapon properties? You say the eidolon has to be bound to a masterwork weapon, however, ALL magic weapons are automatically considered/must be masterwork quality.

Without any rules in place that stop it, in theory (and granted I haven't read the linked file because I'm at work), a weapon binder could find or make a +x whatever weapon with x properties, and THEN tack on even more properties via evolution points.

Could be cool...or insane/broken. >.<

Fictionfan - Dresden Files has their own RPG, and one of the things about most of the "holy" characters like the knights and the priest from the church was an ability (can't remember its actual name) that basically said they showed up where needed via "divine providence".

In other words, the higher powers that be actively guide their chosen representatives where they need to be, although not in a corrupting or crippling way like mind controlling magic produces.

On the subject of hiding spellcasting, the Dark Sun campaign setting in 3.5e had a feat that let you try and hide some or all of the aspects of your castings, since ya know, dragons aside, people got killed for practicing the Art. >.<

Yeah, it's scary giving a 5th level spell to a 1st level character, so I tried to weaken it, but really that's what makes a planes walker a planes walker. I suppose it could be an ability emulating plane shift that requires a skill check that is almost impossible at early levels, but that feels like cheating the player.

Blue is definitely the hardest one to choose affinities for. I wanted each color to have one specialty school and one shared school. The idea is I can then make affinity abilities for those unique schools a little cooler since the ones for the other school can be combined. I ran into a problem with arithmetic on that one, but since red is basically all explosions all the time anyway, I went with just giving it the one school.

For Blue, Illusion was a gimme since I only found 3 illusions that weren't blue. And then I considered abjuration, enchantment, they have some necromancy, some transmutation, lots goodies. In the end, I went with enchantment not only because Blue is "Mind Magic" but because it fits blue more than it fits with any other color. And also because that ave White a unique school, and I like that white is the defensive school. It really just means that if you want to dispel or play a classic "Blue" style you can play a White/Blue manacaster.

Healing is available to white, it's conjuration. I was debating whether to make a spell for summoning that can use any color mana, or add an exception for summon spells, but it should use some color for certain things, like devils need red etc, and that's complicated. Any ideas?

I ran the numbers on spells per day, and at first I had it as 1 mana per spell level and at 20th level it comes out to the same amount of spells as a wizard. But that made me feel like it was too easy to pump out ninth level spells, and it made 0 level spells weird. So then I went with level +1. I compared the ability to do only 9th level spells, to that of a Spell Point variant wizard from UA, and they both come out to 18 (more for the wizard if he has a...

Might be accidently necro-ing this thread, but you could take a page from Xantcha, from her quote from the Planar Void card "Planeswalking isn't about walking. It's about falling and screaming". Perhaps the 1st level Plane Shift spell is erratic and uncontrollable and can be used a finite number of times per day (possibly teleporting the character(s) to far away destinations on the same plane instead of shifting), growing stronger, more reliable, and more useable as the character levels; this would encourage 'walkers to stay on their own planes, but have a useful escape tool when necessary.

Be careful, the antipaladin doesn't get to use ToC as a swift action like a paladin can...

Using 3.x opens up lots of interesting options... The book of swords classes are really good, and warblade especially is a great option.
Warblade//incarnate is nice because the incarnum powers are mostly constant and the warblade abilities are very easy to replenish, they have good stat synergy too.
Warblade//arcanist [blade adept] has to worry a little more about resource management, but they get a blackblade which is really handy when there are no stores (plus they're full casters)
Warblade//magus [bladebound, kensai] still has resource management issues but they have great stat synergy and keep the black blade.

True, but if one does not want to do a bad touch style of play, there is always conductive weapons...if you are referring to using it as a healing ability, it is no worse than any other healer taking a standard action to cast a heal. I was meaning the ToC healing option would be useful outside combat, and should have clarified. >.<

To add further punishment (touch based or not), add the Channel Smite feat into the mix. Of course, all the ToC hyjinxs assumes you aren't facing enemies that are immune to negative energy, or worse, healed by it (undead being not nearly as bad a problem if you take the Command Undead feat).

I've been contemplating Dread Vanguard Antipaladin/Summoner (or Master Summoner if allowed). If you run a race that heals via negative energy (such as Dhampir), then your Touch of Corruption will eventually be Lay on Hands (just choose Disease as your Cruelty, since Plague Bringer makes you immune to disease effects [remember though you are still a carrier, so be careful what disease you give yourself]). All the cool goodies key off CHA, and Antipaladin yeilds several combats styles that mesh well with your eidolion or SLA friends.

My personal inclination would be to take Dread Vanguard, as this gives you more ToCs, and a 1 minute/use of ToC aura that includes eventually getting fast healing 5, moral bonuses to hit, AC, and fear effects, weapons/attacks of you and allies qualify as evil for DR, at 20th you get to tack on 1d6 unholy (divine) energy to ALL attacks, AND anyone within the 30 ft radius can be hit by ToC as a ranged touch attack. I really think a "bad touch" focused antipaladin with all the summoner goodies along with it could be totally fun.

prismaticsoul wrote:

Skylancer4 wrote:

Ruske Bell wrote:

LazarX wrote:

As it's wielded as a shield you have also the downside that it means your hand is not free for spellcasting, assuming you have a weapon in your hand.

The item description says it has no arcane failure chance.

0% Arcane Spell Failure just means it doesn't interfere with spell casting to the point of ruining it completely when you make the attempt. It doesn't mean you have a free hand, that you are required to have, to cast a spell.

If you are doing the sword and board fighting style, you have one hand on your sword, the other wielding the shield. No free hand to cast, regardless of arcane spell failure.

I'm not 100% sure that is true:

Note: this is a partial quote. "This ring generates a shield-sized (and shield-shaped) wall of force that stays with the ring".

To me, it sounds like the anchor point for the shield is the ring itself; it doesn't seem to me to imply that you are holding the shield with straps made out of force, or force shaped handles per se. One might be tempted to argue that a shield with the ring as an anchor point might be cumbersome, yet the shield specifically states it is weightless and non-encumbering.

Perhaps the shape the shield makes MIGHT interfer with somatic gestures, but at least as written, I'm inclined to say the hand the ring is on is still technically free/empty.

Then again, it doesn't matter, since the shield can be formed or dismissed as a free action, with no limit on how often (ie no cooldown period):

Free Action wrote:

Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.

So as far as rules are concerned, you could dismiss the shield as a free action, cast with that hand, reform the shield as a free action, and continue/finish your turn.

...

Hence the reason I was asking questions! lol

I honestly think that regardless of anchor mechanic (and whether you allow the ring hand to remain free or not once the shield is formed), the plane of force created is equivilant to a heavy shield in terms of amount of force it can withstand and inflict...perhaps the rings magic can mimic the impact force needed to shield bash properly.

>.< I didn't think this thread would get this much discussion. First good thread I've made! :-)

You are ignoring the fact that it states wielded like a heavy shield when getting the AC bonus. Using a heavy shield means that hand is unavailable to cast spells. Yes, you can dismiss it to cast, but you aren't getting the AC during the cast.

The term wielded has specific meaning in game. It means being used, not just held or touched, but actual usage. Look up the threads regarding wizards and bonded items. If you have a staff as a bonded item, you must have it in hand and use it when casting spells. This prohibits you from holding a metamagic rod in your hand, as then both hands are busy and leave you without a free hand to do the somatic components (assuming they are needed).

I'm not necessarily ignoring that; I'm merely seeing both sides of the argument. The language of the ring and its creation is to me (and it appears others) vague. It's wielded "like" a heavy shield, but the description of HOW it is wielded is lacking. It's weightless, unencumbering, and causes no ASF, yet it doesn't cover HOW it's wielded (does the construct so mimic a heavy shield that there is straps and handles that bind it to the user?). By RAW, I think a lot of people think this shield construct is quite possibly dancing, moving in tandem with the users ring hand. Now, assuming such an assumption is true (a stretch I know, but the whole point of asking these questions is to engage in thought and logic and try to reach a consensus when the rules are murky), can one argue that the users hand is not open/empty, and POSSIBLY free enough to cast a spell? We would have to assume the shield moves freely enough with the ring hand to not interfere with spellcasting, since it has an ASF of 0%.

Then we have to ask can a caster complete a casting and still use the shield if needed during casting (such as suffering an AoO for casting).

It should be noted that while the item description says the construct acts like a heavy shield, it is not 100% a heavy shield, as a heavy shield has a 15% ASF chance, as well as -2 ACP, and is literally strapped or held with a handle of some sort. Therefore, we cannot reasonably rule that such a construct will act 100% like an equivalent heavy shield, and that may open its own headaches (such as my root question of if the construct is valid enough to make shield bash attempts, and if so, be a qualifying "weapon" for shield bash enhancing feats).

I honestly feel there is enough wiggle room and potential for interpretation for DMs to make their own decisions. At the very least, I think we can all agree a caster with this could go: free action drop shield, standard action cast spell, free action form shield. Whether a caster would be willing to sac 2 AC to cast freely or not would probably depend on the situation no?

Ruske Bell wrote:

LazarX wrote:

As it's wielded as a shield you have also the downside that it means your hand is not free for spellcasting, assuming you have a weapon in your hand.

The item description says it has no arcane failure chance.

0% Arcane Spell Failure just means it doesn't interfere with spell casting to the point of ruining it completely when you make the attempt. It doesn't mean you have a free hand, that you are required to have, to cast a spell.

If you are doing the sword and board fighting style, you have one hand on your sword, the other wielding the shield. No free hand to cast, regardless of arcane spell failure.

I'm not 100% sure that is true:

Note: this is a partial quote. "This ring generates a shield-sized (and shield-shaped) wall of force that stays with the ring".

To me, it sounds like the anchor point for the shield is the ring itself; it doesn't seem to me to imply that you are holding the shield with straps made out of force, or force shaped handles per se. One might be tempted to argue that a shield with the ring as an anchor point might be cumbersome, yet the shield specifically states it is weightless and non-encumbering.

Perhaps the shape the shield makes MIGHT interfer with somatic gestures, but at least as written, I'm inclined to say the hand the ring is on is still technically free/empty.

Then again, it doesn't matter, since the shield can be formed or dismissed as a free action, with no limit on how often (ie no cooldown period):

Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.

So as far as rules are concerned, you could dismiss the shield as a free action, cast with that hand, reform the shield as a free action, and continue/finish your turn. The question becomes: do you want to force the player to constantly say free action to dismiss, free action to reform or not?

Not only can it act as a shield, the description specifically states that it "can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy shield." (emphasis mine)

Of course, unlike a regular shield, it cannot be enhanced (either through magic vestment, magic weapon/greater magic weapon, or permanent magic item bonuses/abilities) or otherwise upgraded (i.e., shield spikes). You are stuck with the base 1d4 damage as a one-handed weapon and no bonuses other than Str and Weapon Focus, etc. On the plus side, as a force effect it applies against incorporeal opponents.

Thank you to Ruske Bell and Dragonchess Player for your replies!

I figured the answer would be yes, but just because it seems that way to me doesn't necessarly mean thats what it would be! lol

Granted a ring of force shield can't be improved as is, but it also doesn't rule out a DM allowing for experimentation of a new form or version that is improved (can haz ring of force spiked tower shield?)
>.<

I'm currently working on an antipaladin/summoner gestalt build, and juggling around different ideas, among them being a "bad touch" design seeking to make ToC overwhelmingly painful.

Currently I'm thinking of using a conductive weapon to channel ToC, and then picking Channel Smite as a feat (allowing a swift action to apply channel damage to a melee attack). Granted such a plan would require 4 uses of ToC for 1 attack (conductive requires 2 uses, and an antipaladin trying to use negative energy channel also requires 2 uses of ToC), but such a build is already going to be CHA intensive, so there should be plenty of uses.

Also, I could focus on JUST touch attacks...but what feats/items are available to make a "bad touch" kind of build work?

Currently, I am heavily considering the Dread Vanguard archetype for antipaladin. You sacrifice antipaladin spells (and divine spell completion/spell trigger, which you dont get back), and aura of sin (which you get back in a modified form) for extra ToC and an aura you make with 1 ToC use that eventually allows you to ToC up to 30 ft away.

I think I remember seeing that touch attacks could be Weapon Focused, but can they be augmented by any of the critical strike feats? Can ToC strike critically? What about Channel Smite? Since the vast bulk of the damage is negative energy, are there ways to ensure such damage hits?

Currently working on an antipaladin/summoner gestalt design, and really tempted to go sword/board. I was worried about ASF and not having a hand free for spellcasting when I came across the ring of force shield. This would seem to solve most of the problems with a quasi-caster toating around a shield and bashing things with it...

Source Ultimate Equipment pg. 171 (Amazon), PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 479 (Amazon)

Aura moderate evocation CL 9th
Slot ring; Price 8,500 gp; Weight —
Description
This ring generates a shield-sized (and shield-shaped) wall of force that stays with the ring and can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy shield (+2 AC). This special creation has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance since it is weightless and encumbrance-free. It can be activated and deactivated at will as a free action.

But can such a shield be used for shield bashing, and even so, can it qualify for shield bash improving feats?

Continuing to ask opinions, suggestions, etc as I work on this character concept. Planning on taking the Dread Vanguard archetype:

Source Champions of Corruption pg. 22 (Amazon)

Some antipaladins serve or ally themselves with villains who are bent on earthly conquest. They care nothing for the intricacies of divine spellcasting, but malevolent energy still surrounds them. Whether alone or at the head of a marauding host, these cruel warriors bring suffering and death—but their presence also heralds the coming of a greater evil.

Dread vanguards have the following class features.

Beacon of Evil (Su): A dread vanguard unleashes the powers of his vile masters to strengthen both himself and his allies.

At 4th level and every 4 level thereafter, a dread vanguard gains one additional use of his touch of corruption ability per day. As a standard action, he can spend a use of his touch of corruption ability to manifest the darkness in his soul as an area of flickering shadows with a 30-foot radius centered on him. These shadows don’t affect visibility. The antipaladin and all allies in the area gain a +1 morale bonus to AC and on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws against fear, and also ignore the first 5 points of hardness when attacking unattended inanimate objects. This lasts for 1 minute, as long as the dread vanguard is conscious.

At 8th level, the aura grants fast healing 3 to the dread vanguard as well as to his allies while they remain within it. Additionally, while this aura is active, the antipaladin can use his touch of corruption ability against any targets within its radius by making a ranged touch attack.

At 12th level, when he activates this ability, a dread vanguard can choose to increase the radius of one antipaladin aura he possesses to 30 feet. Also, the morale bonus granted to AC and on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws against fear increases to +2.

At 16th level, the fast healing granted by this ability increases to 5. Additionally, the antipaladin’s weapons and those of his allies within the aura’s radius are considered evil for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

At 20th level, the beacon of evil’s radius increases to 60 feet, and the morale bonus granted to AC and on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws against fear increases to +4. Lastly, attacks made by the dread vanguard and his allies within the aura’s radius are infused with pure unholy power, and deal an additional 1d6 points of damage.

This ability replaces the spells class feature. A dread vanguard does not gain any spells or spellcasting abilities, cannot use spell trigger or spell completion magic items, and does not have a caster level from this class.

Dark Emissary (Sp): At 14th level, a dread vanguard becomes a true messenger of the forces of darkness he serves. Once per day, the dread vanguard can expend two uses of his touch of corruption ability to mark one location within 60 feet with the stain of evil. This location can be any point in space, but the ability works best if placed on an altar, shrine, or other site important to a community. The location is affected as if by a desecrate spell. Creatures approaching within 30 feet of the site must succeed at a Will save or suffer the effects of crushing despair.

At 17th level, the dread vanguard can also mark the site with a symbol of pain, and at 20th level, he adds a symbol of weakness. If available, all three of these effects overlap. Creatures must save against each effect individually, and the effects stack. The caster level for all effects is equal to the dread vanguard’s class level. The save DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 the antipaladin’s level + his Charisma modifier. A location remains marked in this way for up to 1 day per antipaladin level. During this time, the crushing despair and symbols are triggered when the first target enters each spell’s area. They remain active for 10 minutes, then can be triggered again if targets are within range. If the effects are disabled, they become inactive for 10 minutes, but then can be triggered again as normal. Dispel magic and similar spells suppress the effects, and all effects of dark emissary can be removed by a consecrate spell cast on the location by a cleric of a level equal to or higher than the dread vanguard.

Allies or evil creatures who serve the same power or organization as the dread vanguard are immune to the crushing despair and symbol effects, and automatically know that the location has been marked for their masters. They can treat this location as very familiar for the purpose of teleport and similar spells and can use scrying and related spells as though they were familiar with any subject within 20 feet of it. At 14th level, a dread vanguard can have one marked site active at a time. At 17th and 20th levels, he can add one additional site that is simultaneously active. Marking a new site beyond this limit ends all effects on the oldest active site. This ability replaces aura of sin.

I am also planning on taking the minion instead of weapon bond, so as part of equipment suggestions, please factor in weapon choices. I would like conductive, so I can ToC my melee target, but what other options should be picked? I think there is an option that enhances moral bonuses, but I don't know the name of it.

Character concept currently leans toward sword and board style of combat, and most likely will use mythril armor and shield, as pointed out by Sandslice. Character concept so far is here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s4xm?To-sword-and-board-or-not#1

Thank you in advance for any advice, suggestions, or HELPFUL critiques. As stated in the concept thread, character is aiming more toward anvil/arm, and not so much on hammer.

From the Summon Monster ability:

Quote:

At 3rd level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the power of this ability increases by one spell level, allowing him to summon more powerful creatures (to a maximum of summon monster IX at 17th level). At 19th level, this ability can be used as gate or summon monster IX.

Summon Monster grows with your level, and Q.SLA will operate as the spell Summon Monster is copying.

...come to think of it, there's actually a different problem that might come up. If you can't "downrank" the SLA, then it'd be possible for the ability to "outgrow" the feat completely. Maybe it'd be better to just avoid it for simplicity's sake.

That's what I was thinking; my gut instinct is since the feat basically caps at lv 6 spells, it would cap the ability at Summon Monster 6 as far as being able to quicken it. That of course assumes the feat doesn't snapshot the SLA when you take the feat. >.<

It would be broken if it didn't care what the SLA was actually trying to cast though...quickened SM9's and gates would be horrible.

From Monster Feats in Bestiary, yes. Note:

Quote:

Most of the following feats apply specifically to monsters, although some player characters might qualify for them (particularly Craft Construct).

Once you have caster level 10, the fact that you have spell-like abilities (your summon monster feature) means that you qualify for the feat. Check with your GM just in case, but the rules favour yes here. :)

----

As for shields: bucklers and Light shields are 5%, heavy shields are 15%, and tower shields are 50%. Light and heavy shields, and tower shields, can be made from wood or steel... therefore a mithril light shield has no ASF, while a mithril heavy shield has 5%.

Hmm...on second thought, wouldn't QSA only be able to affect only 1 set mode of the SLA?

Quicken Spell-Like Ability Source Pathfinder RPG Bestiary pg. 1 (Amazon)
This creature can use one of its spell-like abilities with next to no effort.

Prerequisites: Spell-like ability at CL 10th or higher.

Benefit: Choose one of the creature’s spell-like abilities, subject to the restrictions described in this feat. The creature can use the chosen spell-like ability as a quickened spell-like ability three times per day (or less, if the ability is normally usable only once or twice per day).

Using a quickened spell-like ability is a swift action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The creature can perform another action—including the use of another spell-like ability (but not another swift action)—in the same round that it uses a quickened spell-like ability. The creature may use only one quickened spell-like ability per round.

The creature can only select a spell-like ability duplicating a spell with a level less than or equal to 1/2 its caster level (round down) – 4. For a summary, see the table below.

A spell-like ability that duplicates a spell with a casting time greater than 1 full round cannot be quickened.

Spell Level Caster Level to Empower Caster Level to Quicken
0 4th 8th
1st 6th 10th
2nd 8th 12th
3rd 10th 14th
4th 12th 16th
5th 14th 18th
6th 16th 20th
7th 18th —
8th 20th —
9th — —

Normal: The use of a spell-like ability normally requires a standard action (at the very least) and provokes an attack of opportunity.

Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken, the creature can apply it to a different one of its spell-like abilities.

Or would it grow over time, and still wind up capping at SM6?

Sticking with antipally / summoner, I'd pro'ly get frustrated that I couldn't break the build's equilibrium and improve anything. That's the problem: while it's feat-starved, it seems to be completely optimised for your build requirements.

Also, you can use mithril medium armour, and you'll only get ASF from your shield in that case (since summoners can cast in light, and mithril medium counts as light for this.)

If I'd make one change, it'd be to drop one dual-wielding feat (maybe G.TWF) for one of these:

-Sacred Summons (lets you cast Summon Monster spells as a standard action if using [Evil] subtype creatures - but you lose access to it if you somehow lose antipally abilities.)
-Summon Evil Creature (lets you cast Summon Monster spells as a standard action if using the feat's special list, and adds the special list to your summoning options generally);
-Quicken Spell-Like Ability (your Summon Monster class feature qualifies for this starting at CL10; and at 1-round casting time, it works on them!)

---

The main reason I'd go fighter is because of the feat starvation; the extra feats can free up all your generals and then some, opening your options. Unbreakable archetype would be good for a lot of extra resilience, plus the L13 ability to "evasion" Fort and Will save effects.

I don't mind not shinying too much in any one area, so as to make other comfortable with not getting outclassed by Summoner (whether it be regular or Master).

I wonder if there are any shields with low to no ASF...

Hmm....Quicken Spell-Like Ability is very tempting. Is that from Beastairy/is that a feat players can take?

I'm of two minds here.

First, it's a great concept for a villainous character, though I'm not as convinced by the feat sink involved for an antipally shield-bash build. Consider going fighter here so that you at least get gobs of bonus feats for the martial build and can use general feats to improve your magic and suchlike.

-----

However... it's not Golbez, since Golbez is a Black Mage who has other powers (such as summoning) due to the influence of Zemus. If you want to focus on Shadow Dragon, then I'd go Master Summoner / Starsoul sorcerer, and make him lawful evil.

While he's not a martial in FF4, magus / starsoul and fighter / starsoul both work nicely for his After Years appearance; but his alignment there is definitely good.

Starsoul is chosen for the sorcerer bloodline here purely for flavour, due to the Lunarian heritage.

Like I stated, it's akin/inspired by an FF character. I think we can all agree most FF characters don't fit neatly into 1 or 2 or sometimes even more 3.5/Pathfinder classes. I just wanted to rool something themeatical.

That being said, I dunno if fighter/sorc is any better a fit; the eidolon from Summoner can easily be made to be a Shadow like creature, and it can mimic the swarms of monsters Golbez unleashed on the world. Sorc might be able to mimic the flashy magic, as well as some of the "yar here be monsters" bit, but I'm not worried about being a raw dpser. I'd much rather be an anvil/arm, which the proposed combo could pull off quite well (espically if I could find some heavy armor with really low spell failure, or light armor with really good stats).

I like the idea of running sword and board, as its a mirror to how Cecil tends to gear in the game. But again, these are all opinions and proposals.

Assuming you stuck with antipaladin/summoner, what would you try to pull off instead of sword and board? About the only feat I dont want to change is superior summoning.

Assuming I stick with Master Summoner, Shadow will take the huge evolution and the wingless, perfect version of flight (14 points total).

Gol-Beez, Dark Warlord (based off golbez – kinkkayjay.deviantart.com & Shadow – finalfantasykingdom.net)
CE Human Dread Vanguard Antipaladin/Master Summoner (Gestalt)
Stats (assumes 25 point buy system):
STR: 18/+4 (+2 human racial)
DEX: 15/+2
CON: 12/+1
INT: 8/-1
WIS: 8/-1
CHA: 16/+2
Initiative: 4 (DEX bonus + trait bonus)
Saves/Attack/Defense:
Fort: 3 (+2 antipaladin +1 CON bonus)
Ref: 2 (+0 antipaladin +2 DEX bonus)
Will: 1 (+2 antipaladin -1 WIS penalty)
BAB: +1 (+1 antipaladin)
AC: (most likely will stick with light armor to reduce ASF)

Traits: Twinned Presence (+1 trait bonus to Intimidate, if eidolon is summoned and within 30 feet and bigger than you, use its size bonus for Intimidate checks), Reactionary (+2 on Initiative checks).

Feats:
1st level: Two-Weapon Fighting, Combat Reflexes

Abilities:
Aura of Evil, Detect Good, Smite Good 1/day (Antipaladin), halved Eidolon progression, Summoning Mastery (5+CHA bonus times per day use Summon Monster 1 as an SLA/standard action, lasts 1 minute per level, can have 1 SLA active if eidolon is present, or any number of SLAs active if it is not, and grows more powerful as the character levels), cantrips, life link (Master Summoner).

Eidolon:
Shadow
Serpentine base form: Medium size, speed: 20 ft, climb 20 ft. AC: +2 natural armor. Saves: Fort bad, Ref good, Will good. Attack: bite (1d6), tail slap (1d6). Stats: STR 12, DEX 16, CON 13, INT 7, WIS 10, CHA 11. Free evolutions: bite, climb, reach (bite), tail, tail slap. Evolution points @ lv 1 = 3

Planned feat progression:
2nd level: Augment Summoning (bonus feat from Master Summoner)
3rd level: Superior Summoning
5th level: Improved Shield Bash
7th level: Double Slice
9th level: Shield Slam
11th level: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
13th level: Shield Master
15th level: Bashing Finish
17th level: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
19th level: Two-Weapon Rend

Pulling together ideas for my boyfriend's friends campaign, which is most likely going gestalt. Aiming for a themeatic resemblence to Final Fantasy's MBBEG Golbez. Eidolon will represent Shadow, his single summoned "friend" from the last half of the game.

I'm torn between Master summoner or to not Master summoner, as I can't get Shadow anywhere near where he needs to be at half progression, but I like the idea of the antipaladin suddenly having as many minions as he needs...

0 ideas on gear and whatnot so far. Overall, the design wants to be anvil and arm more than hammer. Suggestions, comments, and HELPFUL critiques welcome!

You might want to have a biped eid, so it can pass for a human and not draw unwanted attection.

If you're half orc take sacred tattoo alt racial trait, and Fate's favored as your trait. Rich parents and chosen of iomedae might be nice at lv 1, but wears off really quickly.

Shadow usually won't be out, since I'm considering the Master Summoner Archetype (not to mention, in FF4, Shadow was only ever out once). Shadow comes out to toy and play with the character's enemies when he cockily thinks he's got the upper hand anyways.

As for race, I'm wanting to go either human, or possibly Dhampir (the ability to use ToC as a heal if really needed is quite strong, and dropping 3/day uses of detect undead to not be sensitive to light/daylight isn't a huge burden).

generally I would suggest the following re traits:

1) look at any traits which are campaign specific - typically as a GM I nearly require players to take these as they are often hooks into the campaign (and typically they are better than other traits due to this interaction with the campaign/adventure path etc)

2) consider traits that open up new options to your character. There are many traits that offer a small mechanical impact (but over time their value diminishes in many cases) but there are also traits that offer highly flavorful options and/or change how things work in ways that scale. Wisdom of the Flesh for example is a great trait for monks as it lets you use your Wis with a skill which is otherwise physical AND it makes that skill a class skill - meaning you can have a monk that his also great at say Disable Device. For an antipalidin Birthmark comes to mind potentially (a birthmark in the shape of your holy symbol - possibly if your story is you fell decide if you want this to be in the shape of your former god or your current god - and possibly consider a background where your birthmark actually reshaped itself as you fell?

3) look at racial traits for your race - many of them are pretty interesting and unique compared to other options (and occasionally they are stronger than many other options - there is a human/half-elf/half-ord only trait that lets you get a nice trait boost to will saves and get the starting languages of two ethnicities or races)

Mostly I would suggest looking for options that help you over time - Magical Knack for example could raise your effective caster level (after anti paladin level 4 as before then you don't have a caster level - this wouldn't give you additional spells to cast per day - but it would mean that your spell's durations are longer and some spells would be a bit more effective. Though many Paladin/antipaladin spells don't really depend on caster level all that much)

Remember as well that any ability that modifies the paladin's lay on hands...

The only one I could find that mods LoH/ToC was the one that adds 1 point to the healing done by LoH, which I would guess means ToC would deal 1 more point of damage?

My character concept assuming we do a full gestalt is Golbez from Final Fantasy 4...complete with his eidolon eventually resembling a gigantic Shadow.

Is this for Way of the Wicked? If so then there was a trait giving bonuses against government officials..meaning just about anyone that's fought there all the paladins, every soldier, noble and so on.

Other than that most trats just fill in a class skill or saving throw. Nothing really special for antipals. Perhaps one of those traits that work when there are no allies nearby might come in useful. Antis aren't exactly social types.

No its a home brew campaign. Dunno all the particulars even, but I like having my ideas fleshed out before I start bugging DMs. >.<

I'd also love it if my character started off with more free equipment or resources, so I'm also thinking of Rich Parents and/or Chosen of Iomedae (do you get to keep the sword if you fall from the light?)

This is a character that will potentially get to gestalt, and will most likely gestalt with Summoner, so right now I have my picks as:

Twinned Presence - get a +1 Intimidate trait bonus flat, and if your eidolon is within 30ft and bigger than you, use its size modifier for Intimidate checks you make instead of yours.

Reactionay - +2 trait bonus to Initiative. Planning on being an anvil/arm for our group, so high init is good.

Steel Skin - start play with a great helm, and gain +2 trait to Intimidate while wearing it with heavy armor. Very flavorful considering my concept, but do trait bonuses stack, and if we do gestalt, it could interfer with summoner spellcasting (unless I could somehow make heavy armor light and have it still count for the Intimidate bonus...)

Are there any really must grab traits for antipaladins? I'm assuming there are no earthshattering ones like an extra use of Touch of Corruption or whatnot.

Thanks in advance for any help!

prismaticsoul wrote:

Thanks everyone for your posts!

I've done a little digging, and there are other threads floating about to look into, and some books claiming some neutral types here and there, but it seems to be just tooo out there for most people.

Which is odd. I would think a true neutral paladin wouldn't be very far-fetched....THE embodiment of the desire to preserve the balance. The arguement that druids are the neutral version of paladin's boggles me...all the druids care about are the natural world, not the whole of existance.

The desire to use paladin is mainly because the focus on CHA for saves and spellcasing (as well as buffing BAB and HP) for the summoner are reallly nice! >.<

what you describe is the envoy of balance but its not a paladin in mechanic :( I can say that if the charisma to saves and charisma to casting can be done with an oracle and divine protection feat. Its no the best that it could be but maybe its something to inspire something that fits better.

PS: an envoy has decent synergy with master summoner because of augment summoning for free.

Of course there are other CHA based classes to look at, and by no means am I currently ruling out any others...I just really love the idea of a paladin wandering around, perhaps getting ambushed, mocked for being alone and going "Alone? No...I am never truly alone." as he summons a pack of whatevers and goes to town. >.<

Yeah I have Champions of Balance, and the envoy is very cool...taking enough dips for the summons aren't hedged out by protections would be very slick.