I was doing some theory-crafting yesterday and noticed something unfortunate about Clerics of Irori. Because their favored weapon is the only weapon proficiency that ever advances, a Cleric with a Monk multiclass cannot take proper advantage of any of the Monk's style feats. Iroran Cleric's advance to expert with fists, but not all unarmed strikes, so their proficiency with things like crane wing attacks will always be stuck at trained.
While this isn't inconsistent with how the Cleric's proficiency works for other deities, it certainly feels like a flavor failure, and is another point to add to the ongoing discussion of the absence of unarmed proficiency increases in classes that seem like they ought to have them.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
That's something I'd completely ignore in any home game. I'd totally allow such a charcter to become expert with all monk stly attacks. But for society and anyone going strictly be RAW, it sucks, no doubt.
The Iroran cleric also can't use any of the cleric weapon buff feats with their favorite weapon since all of those specifically require a weapon. I'm talking about Emblazon Armament, Align Weapon and their follow up feats.
That's something I'd completely ignore in any home game. I'd totally allow such a charcter to become expert with all monk stly attacks. But for society and anyone going strictly be RAW, it sucks, no doubt.
The Iroran cleric also can't use any of the cleric weapon buff feats with their favorite weapon since all of those specifically require a weapon. I'm talking about Emblazon Armament, Align Weapon and their follow up feats.
Hmm, I wonder if that's by design or an oversight? Castigating Weapon explicitly works on both weapon and unarmed Strikes, so it's not a universal problem with cleric feats. It may be that we'll just have to wait for some unarmed-specific battle cleric feat support.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That's something I'd completely ignore in any home game. I'd totally allow such a charcter to become expert with all monk stly attacks. But for society and anyone going strictly be RAW, it sucks, no doubt.
The Iroran cleric also can't use any of the cleric weapon buff feats with their favorite weapon since all of those specifically require a weapon. I'm talking about Emblazon Armament, Align Weapon and their follow up feats.
I'm not sure about this, from the description of handwraps, you should be able to emblazon, align them by there description. I also think they might also work for the paladin divine blade power.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I was doing some theory-crafting yesterday and noticed something unfortunate about Clerics of Irori. Because their favored weapon is the only weapon proficiency that ever advances, a Cleric with a Monk multiclass cannot take proper advantage of any of the Monk's style feats. Iroran Cleric's advance to expert with fists, but not all unarmed strikes, so their proficiency with things like crane wing attacks will always be stuck at trained.
While this isn't inconsistent with how the Cleric's proficiency works for other deities, it certainly feels like a flavor failure, and is another point to add to the ongoing discussion of the absence of unarmed proficiency increases in classes that seem like they ought to have them.
When it comes to Clerics of Irori I would imagine that the majority of them would be either Monk with MCD Cleric or Cleric with MCD Monk. I think people should work their way away from the habits we all had in Pathfinder First Edition.
Rather than Multiclass being an extremely niche thing like it was in First Edition I can see it being much more of a way to spice up a character with various aspects of another class, without sacrificing much at all from their main one.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Having the sacred weapon of Irori being "fist" not "unarmed strike" doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't think Irori would disapprove of kicks, knee/elbow strikes, headbutts, etc. Indeed, the perfect unarmed combat style should utilize all parts of the body, moving in concert, with no wasted effort.
Also, from what it looks like to me it could be interpreted that anything affecting "Fist" would affect other default unarmed attacks.
Pg 278
Unarmed Attacks
Almost all characters start out trained in unarmed attacks. You can Strike with your fist or another body part, calculating your attack and damage rolls in the same way you would with a weapon. Unarmed attacks can belong to a weapon group (page 280), and they might have weapon traits (page 282). However, unarmed attacks aren’t weapons, and effects and abilities that work with weapons never work with unarmed attacks unless they specifically say so.
Table 6–6: Unarmed Attacks lists the statistics for an unarmed attack with a fist, though you’ll usually use the same statistics for attacks made with any other parts of your body. Certain ancestry feats, class features, and spells give access to special, more powerful unarmed attacks. Details for those unarmed attacks are provided in the abilities that grant them.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I was doing some theory-crafting yesterday and noticed something unfortunate about Clerics of Irori. Because their favored weapon is the only weapon proficiency that ever advances, a Cleric with a Monk multiclass cannot take proper advantage of any of the Monk's style feats. Iroran Cleric's advance to expert with fists, but not all unarmed strikes, so their proficiency with things like crane wing attacks will always be stuck at trained.
While this isn't inconsistent with how the Cleric's proficiency works for other deities, it certainly feels like a flavor failure, and is another point to add to the ongoing discussion of the absence of unarmed proficiency increases in classes that seem like they ought to have them.
When it comes to Clerics of Irori I would imagine that the majority of them would be either Monk with MCD Cleric or Cleric with MCD Monk. I think people should work their way away from the habits we all had in Pathfinder First Edition.
Rather than Multiclass being an extremely niche thing like it was in First Edition I can see it being much more of a way to spice up a character with various aspects of another class, without sacrificing much at all from their main one.
That's my point though. If you want to be a cleric who multiclasses into monk, you won't be able to properly use any style feats at higher levels since you don't advance your proficiency in those strikes. I agree that Cleric multiclassing into Monk should be a common thing for Irorans, but it doesn't quite work because of the proficiency limitations.
Is hypothetically the restriction on "fist" to prevent shenanigans with getting deadly simplicity on your attacks when you shapeshift? I can see that being an issue, but I could just go with "Unarmed Attacks with your natural form or something." Might have futureproofing ideas with Kitsune eventually.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Is hypothetically the restriction on "fist" to prevent shenanigans with getting deadly simplicity on your attacks when you shapeshift? I can see that being an issue, but I could just go with "Unarmed Attacks with your natural form or something." Might have futureproofing ideas with Kitsune eventually.
Increases to the Die Size of "Fist" are capped to increasing it up to 1d6. So I'm not sure that's the case. I think that they just put that there and meant to put Unarmed.
Not sure though.
I'm going to be treating it that way.