| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I don't believe 1st edition ever gave any sort of justification as to why druids had to avoid metal - it was 100% a holdover from older editions.
Now, in 2nd edition, it remains a holdover, still with no explanation.
So my question: why is it okay to kill the tree to work it's wood into armor or shields, but not okay to mine the ore to work into armor or shields?
I don't believe 1st edition ever gave any sort of justification as to why druids had to avoid metal - it was 100% a holdover from older editions.
Now, in 2nd edition, it remains a holdover, still with no explanation.
So my question: why is it okay to kill the tree to work it's wood into armor or shields, but not okay to mine the ore to work into armor or shields?
There's a few ways to look at it. In a society with perfect recycling systems and free energy, nothing would fall outside of the natural cycles of the world. However, metal extraction and refining in Golarion is a one way process, using lots of wood turned into coal to make relatively small amounts of metal. That metal then lives its entire life outside of any natural cycles before it is lost in some hoard.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I don't believe 1st edition ever gave any sort of justification as to why druids had to avoid metal - it was 100% a holdover from older editions.
Now, in 2nd edition, it remains a holdover, still with no explanation.
So my question: why is it okay to kill the tree to work it's wood into armor or shields, but not okay to mine the ore to work into armor or shields?
Could it be because metalworking is kind of, a symbol of civilization/industry and woodworking a spear or bow is more about surviving?
At least that's what I go with in my games. To wield metal you need to mine it, process it, hammer it and forge it.
To make a bow to hunt game or a spear for fishing, you can make do with what you find in a forest.
|
There's a few ways to look at it. In a society with perfect recycling systems and free energy, nothing would fall outside of the natural cycles of the world. However, metal extraction and refining in Golarion is a one way process, using lots of wood turned into coal to make relatively small amounts of metal. That metal then lives its entire life outside of any natural cycles before it is lost in some hoard.I don't believe 1st edition ever gave any sort of justification as to why druids had to avoid metal - it was 100% a holdover from older editions.
Now, in 2nd edition, it remains a holdover, still with no explanation.
So my question: why is it okay to kill the tree to work it's wood into armor or shields, but not okay to mine the ore to work into armor or shields?
Metal is the undead of materials !!!
Time for some interesting Pharasmin excentric cultists.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
It's worth pointing out that you *can* use metal weapons, so the substance isn't entirely anathema - only for armor and shields.
Which basically makes the whole issue even more muddied, imo.
It is just certain level of civilisation that didn't fit who Gygax based them on and it just kinda stuck.
Trees can have wood harvested from them without cutting them down, animals can have hides harvested when killed for food, in defense or when found dead/injured.
Metal tools are an exception because they are just that handy.
Metal armour is accepting that you are reliant on civilisation to protect and keep you safe.
Fun fact, the scimitar was just included because he thought it was the closest existing weapon to a sickle (yeaahhhhh).
Of course real druids were closer to leaders/lore keepers, but I am happy with our nature focused magic shape shifters so I won't be too hard on the ol Gygax.
I don't believe 1st edition ever gave any sort of justification as to why druids had to avoid metal - it was 100% a holdover from older editions.
Now, in 2nd edition, it remains a holdover, still with no explanation.
So my question: why is it okay to kill the tree to work it's wood into armor or shields, but not okay to mine the ore to work into armor or shields?
I always found it weird that druids can use metal weapons but not armor. Luckily hide is as good as scale now and is 2gp less in price. 14 dex and str are fairly easy to get by level 5 so no reason to care about light armor. It's the wooden shield that is the issue. Level 8 darkwood is uncommon and I'm not sure how often one will want to block an attack with a wooden shield.
On another note refined metals are a sign of civilization and mining is hard on the natural environment. I would think most druids would hate minerals being stripped from the ground. I guess alowing druids to only use clubs and staves would be too limiting for game mechanics. My dwarven animal druid uses a pick. Better for mining the souls of those that destroy nature than minerals I suppose. Recycling is important after all.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I always thought the old restriction against metal armor was because natural spirits can't communicate through metal, due to the natural aversion they have to cold iron (as seen by fey type's DR). So druids can use metal weapons, but they can't wear metal armor because that would create a barrier around them that prevents communion with natural spirits.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I always thought the old restriction against metal armor was because natural spirits can't communicate through metal, due to the natural aversion they have to cold iron (as seen by fey type's DR). So druids can use metal weapons, but they can't wear metal armor because that would create a barrier around them that prevents communion with natural spirits.
Ah I like this interpretation. +1
I agree that the only real explanation is nature vs civilization. Druids are supposed to be luddites, clinging to the "old ways" and rejecting the more modern veneer of civilized crafting, represented by metal weapons.
This said, if you have a good DEX, there is little to be gained by wearing heavier armor.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It would be nice if they were clear on what counted though. A chain shirt is obviously anathema, but studded leather is...maybe?
PF2 is mostly really specific and mechanistic, which makes the places it goes vague and uncertain really annoying.
And then of course you get darkwood armor which is easier to wear than 'normal wood armor' which... tells us nothing about what kinds of armor can be made.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It would be nice if they were clear on what counted though. A chain shirt is obviously anathema, but studded leather is...maybe?
PF2 is mostly really specific and mechanistic, which makes the places it goes vague and uncertain really annoying.And then of course you get darkwood armor which is easier to wear than 'normal wood armor' which... tells us nothing about what kinds of armor can be made.
Yep, it'd be easier to swallow if they spelled out that plate, breastplate, etc., could also be made out of wood (or chitin or other nonmetal, naturally hard materials) and that this was uncommon for everyone else but that druids had access to it.
|
"If you’re not sure what a suit of armor is made of, the GM determines the details." p.275
Ask your GM.
But anyway besides that, the druid no metal armor is more folklore and Gygax legacy combined.
Iron was used often to ward off against otherworldly guests.
You can find this information in wikipedia about Iron in Folklore:
"Cold iron" is historically believed to repel, contain, or harm ghosts, fairies, witches, and other malevolent supernatural creatures. This belief continued into later superstitions in a number of forms:Nailing an iron horseshoe to a door was said to repel evil spirits or later, to bring good luck.
Surrounding a cemetery with an iron fence was thought to contain the souls of the dead.
Burying an iron knife under the entrance to one's home was alleged to keep witches from entering.
Cold Iron in modern fantasy has evolved to become a special material used to ward off against Fairies in particular.
Gary Gygax said that he took inspiration from the Gallic Priests, Druids from Caesar Description when the druid came out in Eldritch Wizardry in 1978. I do not have a copy of Eldritch Wizardry 1978 but from what I heard, they do make a nod to the iron/metal taboo.
The not wearing metal armor is probably just a druidic tradition/teaching, just that in their fantasy setting, this tradition/teaching happens to lock up your powers if you don't follow it. As druids funny enough for being most of the time seen as hermit loners are probably the most social "class", druidic orders/circles are accepted by default and even share a secret language, druidic.
*snip*
Gary Gygax said that he took inspiration from the Gallic Priests, Druids from Caesar Description when the druid came out in Eldritch Wizardry in 1978. I do not have a copy of Eldritch Wizardry 1978 but from what I heard, they do make a nod to the iron/metal taboo.
The not wearing metal armor is probably just a druidic tradition/teaching, just that in their fantasy setting, this tradition/teaching happens to lock up your powers if you don't follow it. As druids funny enough for being most of the time seen as hermit loners are probably the most social "class", druidic orders/circles are accepted by default and even share a secret language, druidic.
Eldritch Wizardry
"Druids are able to employ the following sorts of weapons: Daggers, sickle or crescent-shaped swords, spears, slings, and oil. They may wear armor of leather, and use wooden shields. They may not use metallic armor. Druids may use those magical items not otherwise proscribed to them which are usable by “all classes” and all those items normally usable by clerics, excluding all clerical items of a written nature (scrolls, books, etc.). With regard to fighting ability and saving throws treat druids as clerics, except that with regard to fire the saving throw is always +2 in the druids’ favor."
No real reasons given. No other entries that I can find here either.