Looking at a barbarian with bard multiclass, rage specifies you cant do anything with the concentrait.
From what i can see that only applies to sustaining a spell over multiple rounds - does normal spellcasting have a caveat Im missing?
And since Perform is concentrate, how does that apply to composition cantrips? Is there any restriction there?
Whats the case for moment of clarity?
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All spells with verbal components have the concentrate trait.
Spell Components Each spell lists the spell components
required to cast it after the action icons or text, such as “[three-actions]material, somatic, verbal." The spell components, described in
detail below, add traits and requirements to the Cast a Spell
activity. If you can’t provide the components, you fail to Cast
the Spell.
• Material (manipulate)
• Somatic (manipulate)
• Verbal (concentrate)
• Focus (manipulate)
So you would need "Moment of Clarity" to cast any spells with Verbal components or use your Perform.
So what you do is use your musical instrument to replace the "Verbal Trait" component on all spells, and you're set!
"You can usually also play an instrument for spells requiring verbal components, instead of speaking."
That doesn't mean the spell doesn't have a verbal component, though, so it wouldn't remove the concentrate trait.
"You can usually also play an instrument for spells requiring verbal components, instead of speaking."
That doesn't mean the spell doesn't have a verbal component, though, so it wouldn't remove the concentration trait.
Some classes can substitute one component for another
or alter how a component works.
If you’re a bard Casting a Spell from the occult tradition
while holding a musical instrument, you can play that
instrument to replace any material, somatic, or verbal
components the spell requires by using the instrument as
a focus component instead. Cast a Spell gains the auditory
trait if you make this substitution. Unlike the normal rules
for a focus component, you can’t retrieve or stow the
instrument when making this substitution
Angry Vuvuzela anyone?
Thanks for the responses everyone, I had missed the traits on components.
Prototype does seem to be quoting a specific exception though - is that working as intended for rage? If you swap out the verbal (concentrate) for a focus (manipulate) then would you need to stop raging?
I'm not trying to cheese, just a curious gm. But an angry vuvuzela, or shredding a lute, does sound fun.
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Yeah, looks like the wording in bard and spellcasting isn't parallel. In terms of reconciling, spellcasting's version is probably easier to understand than the one in bard, but in that case that section should say it doesn't remove the concentrate trait from spells with verbal components; playing an instrument to create precise sounds requires at least as much concentration as speaking them does.
Yeah, looks like the wording in bard and spellcasting isn't parallel. In terms of reconciling, spellcasting's version is probably easier to understand than the one in bard, but in that case that section should say it doesn't remove the concentrate trait from spells with verbal components; playing an instrument to create precise sounds requires at least as much concentration as speaking them does.
So just for clarification's sake, when a Focus replaces a spell component, whether verbal, somatic or material, it doesn't take away that specific components keywords (but I thought that was how it worked in this game, replace the x/replace the keywords)?
prototype00
Yeah, looks like the wording in bard and spellcasting isn't parallel. In terms of reconciling, spellcasting's version is probably easier to understand than the one in bard, but in that case that section should say it doesn't remove the concentrate trait from spells with verbal components; playing an instrument to create precise sounds requires at least as much concentration as speaking them does.So just for clarification's sake, when a Focus replaces a spell component, whether verbal, somatic or material, it doesn't take away that specific components keywords (but I thought that was how it worked in this game, replace the x/replace the keywords)?
prototype00
I think Mark is saying that normally, that is true, but the intent of the Bardic spellcasting isn't to circumvent the original traits of spells for this purpose, merely to replace what sort of actions are required for other restrictions. At least, for the purposes of Rage.
Let's take an example of the Silence spell. Party Bard is affected by it. He tries to sing (which is a Verbal component). Does the spell work? No, because sound doesn't take effect (which is key for the spell to work), which means the spell is lost. Let's take that same thing and use it with a lute. Bard affected by Silence tries to strum his lute to make the sound needed for his spell (which is now a Focus/Somatic component). Does it work? Again, no, because the lute is not making the appropriate sounds for the spell to take place. If it didn't matter what kind of sound the lute makes, then we'd have a case here.
In that sense, Bardic Spellcasting doesn't remove the requirements of the spells. Of course, for the above case, it might work with Dancing, which is purely visual and requires no sound to take place, but that is its own cornercase, and it can easily be argued that dancing in a certain way (for the purposes of executing a spell) likewise requires its own concentration, and therefore would still be disallowed for Barbarian Rage.
I do say that this would make for an important FAQ for the game, since it doesn't clearly spell this out, but to me I can understand where the developers are coming from and agree with their assessment (even if it means PF1 Skald is no longer a thing).
You can’t dance or use any type of performance you want to replace spell components, it specifically has to be playing an instrument.
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Yep. It can't be singing, chanting or rhyming, miming or dancing. It _must_ be an instrument that takes at least one hand to use, and the Instruments in the Equipment section all require two (and weigh an entire Bulk, or 16 for heavy instruments, which you aren't going to carry), so 'play an instrument' is actually much MORE restrictive and worse than just using normal components.
A gish bard definitely can't juggle weapons, shields and instruments and act in any functional fashion.
So no angry skittermander dual wielding axes. *sniff*
OK. I'm over it.
There should definitely be an FAQ for this though.
Why a FAQ? Or rather what would be FAQ'ed? This is all explicitly spelled out. Bard spellcasting lists those requirements.
Maybe the concentrate thing, but that's about it.
Inspire courage has a verbal component, which does have the concentration trait.
I think Moment of Clarity is included specifically to open up the spellcasting barbarian, which I think is fine. Maybe when we see some sort of skald class or archetype it'll add the rage trait to compositions or add some new ones :)
Why a FAQ? Or rather what would be FAQ'ed? This is all explicitly spelled out. Bard spellcasting lists those requirements.
Maybe the concentrate thing, but that's about it.
I guess it depends on your expectations of FAQ.
My thinking is that errata is for fixing things that were incorrect when first printed.
FAQ is for things that are correctly written, but are still confusing people for some reason. (or to point out that errata has been created for something)
We had a good sized group of people on at least two separate threads here thinking that a barbarian/bard could cast spells with an instrument while raging. Hence the need for FAQ.