Fighter is a better Barbarian.


Advice


If you want to play a Barbarian is better to be a Fighter. ¿Why?

You are expert in your weapon(IMPORTANT). You have attack of opportunity (IMPORTANT). Shield Block (situational) and you can wear all types of armor (situational).

Lvl 2 you can take Barbarian multiclass (Rage + Instinct)
Lvl 6 you take Instinct ability.

Basically you have everything important from Barbarian plus better proficiency + attack of opportunity.

¿Am I missing something?


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

All barbarian feats past 10 and delayed access to the ones below 10.


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Barbarians =/= Fighter =/= Other Martials.

Barbarian feats are what you miss out on and various boosts to raging amongst other things.

If you want to play a Fighter that MCs into Barbarian thats fine, but it's like saying champion multiclassed into cleric is a better cleric, maybe for something but its not generally true.

And Barbarians can get AoO at 6th level; Heavy Armour isn't that much better; the iconic idea of a barbarian doesn't use a sheild, they use a 2 handed weapon (and you can get shield block as a general feat); and barbarians get expert in weapons at 5th level (they do cap at master though).

The iconic idea of a fighter is well trained and skillfull; the iconic idea of a barbarian is someone who hits like a truck, even if they miss more often.


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PochiPooom wrote:

If you want to play a Barbarian is better to be a Fighter. ¿Why?

You are expert in your weapon(IMPORTANT). You have attack of opportunity (IMPORTANT). Shield Block (situational) and you can wear all types of armor (situational).

Lvl 2 you can take Barbarian multiclass (Rage + Instinct)
Lvl 6 you take Instinct ability.

Basically you have everything important from Barbarian plus better proficiency + attack of opportunity.

¿Am I missing something?

Apart from everything the others mentioned, you'll never get access to instinct weapon Specialisation and that's a solid 6+ damage boost per attack on top of the actual weapon Specialisation.

Liberty's Edge

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Instinct Ability will not get you the Barbarian's Instinct Specialization Ability.

A Raging Giant Instinct Barbarian has a static damage bonus of +24 by 20th level from Class and Rage alone, and you can get almost as high (at +22) with Dragon, and +18 even with Fury or Animal Instincts.

A Fighter maxes out at +8. +10 with Barbarian Multiclass, +14 if you get Giant Instinct's ability (or +12 with Dragon's).

+10 or so damage may not make up for the Fighter's increased accuracy, but it's sure not nothing.

In fact, let's look at maximal level DPR with a Greatsword. A 20th level Fighter with the aforementioned Giant Instinct stuff will have +38 to attack for 4d12+21 while an equivalent Barbarian will have +36 to hit for 4d12+31.

Versus AC 46, the DPR on those is 35.25 on one attack for the Fighter, 34.2 for the Barbarian. Which favors the Fighter, but not too much. Without Giant Instinct and the multiclass, the Fighter would be behind on a single attack.

There are also several other areas where the Barbarian is superior, HP being the most obvious (a 20th level Barbarian has 40 HP on a Fighter of the same level), but Resistance to damage equal to their Con Mod is probably at least as relevant. They have only one less AC (2 when raging, but you're asking for them to be compared to a Fighter who is also raging), but much better damage resistance in some other ways.

Your Saves are also notably better. Fighters max out at Master Fortitude, Master Reflex, Expert Will. Barbarians get Legendary Fortitude, Expert Reflex, Master Will. +2 to a Save and an enhanced evasion style effect with it is a very solid defensive advantage, and combined with Will likely being a better Save to be good at than Reflex, possibly a better one than the Fighter's slight offensive edge.

Class Feats are also an obvious area where this is relevant. A lot of Barbarian Class Feats are very good and you don't want to wait for.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

From what I've gleamed, Fighter has a higher attack, while the Barbarian has higher damage.

Edit: ninjaed awesomely by Mister Deadman.


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Thanks a lot guys!

Can't apreciate as much as I should. You saved me to do a really wrong character becouse I am creating a Dwarf Barbarian.
Really well explained!


I've been trying to build a 10th level barbarian vs fighter in the new PF2 system for comparison.

Can anyone post some builds for comparison?


Deadmanwalking wrote:

Instinct Ability will not get you the Barbarian's Instinct Specialization Ability.

A Raging Giant Instinct Barbarian has a static damage bonus of +24 by 20th level from Class and Rage alone, and you can get almost as high (at +22) with Dragon, and +18 even with Fury or Animal Instincts.

A Fighter maxes out at +8. +10 with Barbarian Multiclass, +14 if you get Giant Instinct's ability (or +12 with Dragon's).

+10 or so damage may not make up for the Fighter's increased accuracy, but it's sure not nothing.

In fact, let's look at maximal level DPR with a Greatsword. A 20th level Fighter with the aforementioned Giant Instinct stuff will have +38 to attack for 4d12+21 while an equivalent Barbarian will have +36 to hit for 4d12+31.

Versus AC 46, the DPR on those is 35.25 on one attack for the Fighter, 34.2 for the Barbarian. Which favors the Fighter, but not too much. Without Giant Instinct and the multiclass, the Fighter would be behind on a single attack.

There are also several other areas where the Barbarian is superior, HP being the most obvious (a 20th level Barbarian has 40 HP on a Fighter of the same level), but Resistance to damage equal to their Con Mod is probably at least as relevant. They have only one less AC (2 when raging, but you're asking for them to be compared to a Fighter who is also raging), but much better damage resistance in some other ways.

Your Saves are also notably better. Fighters max out at Master Fortitude, Master Reflex, Expert Will. Barbarians get Legendary Fortitude, Expert Reflex, Master Will. +2 to a Save and an enhanced evasion style effect with it is a very solid defensive advantage, and combined with Will likely being a better Save to be good at than Reflex, possibly a better one than the Fighter's slight offensive edge.

Class Feats are also an obvious area where this is relevant. A lot of Barbarian Class Feats are very good and you don't want to wait for.

First, this post is excellent and I love the use of actual DPR statistics to measure and compare.

Second, you've not even gotten into the one amazing part of playing the Giant Barbarian, his incredible reach. Fighter has to get all up in something's grill. The Barbarian stands quite a distance away and swats. This means that something will likely have to not just take an action to get to the Barbarian, but likely will have to use that action for a Move, not a Step. This is a multi-player cooperative game, afterall, and we can be somewhat certain that a class with an Attack of Opportunity is all up in that bad boy's face already. If, and it's a big if, that baddy wanted to come to you, the Barbarian, he's going to have to incur one and maybe multiple AoOs. That could dissuade them from taking that approach at all.


What's your favorite barbarian Instinct - I like spirit. Has some really great flavor. Plus you get to wield a lightsaber !

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