
senseNOTmade |
Hey, I'm a player new to pathfinder. Over the last 1-2 weeks I've been skimming through the rules and classes, seeing how well I can shore up my knowledge before I join an ongoing campaign run by some friends.
It was during this search that I found it: the swarm shifter archetype. My imagination immediately jumped: a humanoid figure made up of a writhing, seething mass of spiders engulfing enemies and dragging them to the floor and their doom. It had to be a grappler build. And I know what you're thinking right now: "Aww, it's his first pathfinder love. How romantic."
But there is a problem. I have not found any extensive guides on the swarm shifter nor is the archetype mentioned in any of the grappling guides I have read. I'm not looking for some super-optimized build, but I do think that being a total wimp in the damage department would rather detract from the horror elements I am trying to RP.
As I understand it, the standard approach to dealing damage with grappler builds is to get grab and constrict, and then use a bunch of feats to grapple as many times as possible and hence apply grab/constrict as often as possible. But I'm not sure how to do this with a swarm shifter. I considered maybe a white haired witch multiclass? But that build seems unusably MAD. With my limited understanding of the rules, how am I ever going to find my love so we can horrifically suffocate people to death together forever after?
So I would like to ask what build recommendations you can give me to build an ok/viable level 7 swarm shifter focused on grappling (note: DM has kindly expressed his willingness to 'reskin' abilities to fit the RP theme as long as it has no effect on the rules/mechanics).
Many thanks for all your advice.

avr |

The shifter has no bonus feats so you're going to spend all of yours on grappling probably. At a minimum you need improved unarmed strike or dirty fighting, improved grapple and greater grapple. You can also get into one of the styles which aids grappling; Snapping Turtle or Kraken are styles you could have started by this point. If human/if you take a dip in another class (like master of many styles monk or unarmed fighter) you could have two or even all three feats in your chosen style.
You can become immune to grapple combat maneuvers by taking your swarm form which I think means enemies can't try to reverse control of the grapple. Probably not an intended effect, it occurs because the writers were too conservative in handing out the swarm abilities and restrictions.
There are some magic items which help, notably anaconda's coils is a belt which gives the constrict ability.

Scott Wilhelm |
The fastest-increasing Grapple Mod Class I know is Alchemist. They can get a Familiar: a King Crab Familiar gives them a +2 on Grapple Checks, and the fact that actually a tumor and not an aquatic animal makes it easier to care for. They can also get a Tentacle: +4 on Grapple checks.
I like Cavalier, Order of the Penitent. They can Tie Up opponents they have Grappled, not Pinned, and they don't take the -10 they usually do. The way this would work as a Swarm Shifter is that you would be Polymorphing into a Giant Spider wrapping up your victims in your webs! For the Cavalier's bonus Teamwork Feat, I tentatively recommend Coordinated Maneuvers: +2 on all Combat Maneuver Checks!

awbattles |

The shifter has no bonus feats so you're going to spend all of yours on grappling probably. At a minimum you need improved unarmed strike or dirty fighting, improved grapple and greater grapple. You can also get into one of the styles which aids grappling; Snapping Turtle or Kraken are styles you could have started by this point. If human/if you take a dip in another class (like master of many styles monk or unarmed fighter) you could have two or even all three feats in your chosen style.
You can become immune to grapple combat maneuvers by taking your swarm form which I think means enemies can't try to reverse control of the grapple. Probably not an intended effect, it occurs because the writers were too conservative in handing out the swarm abilities and restrictions.
There are some magic items which help, notably anaconda's coils is a belt which gives the constrict ability.
Honestly, the ability to not have your grapples broken? Insane. There are lots of ways to boost grapple CMB, but CMD is a much harder one to raise up. Without looking closely into a build, the idea is intriguing, although as you pointed out, pretty feat intensive for a Shifter.

senseNOTmade |
Thanks for all the feedback guys.
A couple questions:
-If I decide to multiclass, what should I look out for and are there any options you think would work especially well? Would tetori monk, brawler or unarmed fighter work best in conjunction with the shifter abilities?
-It seems like the only way to get either grab or constrict is the anaconda belt, which is a little expensive. Are there any other ways to get them, and if I don't how significantly will that hold back my combat effectiveness?
-Can you think of any way for me to boost my size further? Mostly cuz' I think becoming bigger is super cool...
-The Cavelier combo is fascinating. I could even imagine it as the regular-sized spiders engulfing someone and spinning their webs; keeping them fresh for future consumption. Is the cavelier 'edict' an actual mechanic or just an RP prompt which may be ignored?

avr |

Yeah, cavalier edicts are a mechanic. Follow them or risk losing your order abilities. Note that tying up your enemy requires the use of rope or something; your GM may be willing to refluff what you're doing I guess.
You only have a couple of levels to use here if you want that level 5 ability, and since that's the main advantage the swarm shifter gets with grappling I recommend doing so. So no, large is as big as you get.
There are no significantly cheaper means of getting constrict. You don't necessarily need to do so though, grappling is good at disabling enemies even without making you extraordinary at damage.
For 1-2 levels in dips I'd mainly look at the feats you get, although master of many styles monk has the potential advantage of getting two styles which you can have active at once, and/or getting a different grappling style which you otherwise wouldn't qualify yet like grabbing style.

Scott Wilhelm |
It is probably worth it just for the 5 levels to snag that ability. 8 minutes a day should be plenty.
As for the giant spider idea, swarm shifter has no polymorph abilities. They would need to pick up shapeshifting through some other ability.
They transform into a swarm of vermin, but they can't use webs because they don't actually Polymorph? That sucks.
If they aren't actually Polymorphing, they can still use regular rope regularly, though, can't they?