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Luis pointed out on one of the Discords that all of the organizations in the Lost Omens Character Guide have been revealed (in one place or another) at this point.
So for folks who were wondering, I collected the list. These are the 5 organizations:
1) Firebrands
2) Hellknights
3) Knights of Lastwall
4) Magaambya
5) Pathfinder Society
Luis added that "Every org gets a minimum of 1 archetype" and that "The Firebrand archetype is a double-sized archetype."
We know the following archetypes so far, I believe:
A) Firebrand ("double-sized" archetype)
B) Hellknight ("full" hellknight)
C) Hellknight Signifier
D) Knight of Lastwall ("full" knight)
???
I'm not sure we've heard any others, but I may have missed it.
Note that these all seem to be built so you can roll right into them from the "entry" archetype in the Lost Omens World Guide. E.g., you can go from Armiger to Signifier without having to fully satisfy the dedication requirement in Armiger, same for the Pathfinder Society and for the Knights of Lastwall.
This pretty clearly suggests that we're getting something Firebrand-related for the Saga Lands or Shining Kingdoms region in the LOWG, whichever would be appropriate for it.
P.S. As a reminder, the LOWG archetypes we know so far:
i) Absalom: Pathfinder Agent
ii) Broken Lands: Aldori Duelist
iii) Eye of Dread: Lastwall Sentry
iv) Golden Road: Living Monolith
v) High Seas: Red Mantis Assassin
vi) Impossible Lands: Student of Perfection
vii) Mwangi Expanse: Magic Warrior
viii) Old Cheliax: Hellknight Armiger
ix) Saga Lands: ?
x) Shining Kingdoms: ?
Ah, I had missed that Red Mantis Assassin was confirmed. That's awesome! My former Kingmaker player whose character is a Red Mantis will be happy to hear she can rebuild her character out of the gate in 2e. :)
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Ah, I had missed that Red Mantis Assassin was confirmed. That's awesome! My former Kingmaker player whose character is a Red Mantis will be happy to hear she can rebuild her character out of the gate in 2e. :)
Not *right* out of the gate, I guess,since LOWG was delayed (to the end of August I believe?). But close!
Magic Warrior? Did that have a 1E equivalent?
Im really excited for these. I was a real "Boo 2E >:(" guy until we started getting these leaks. A lot of my issues appear to be cleaned up! The only problem now is converting all my Homebrew Stuff to 2E!
Also really curious about Firebrand being "Double Size", I'm assuming that means more options or choices within the archetype, perhaps stuff for martial and caster options? Who knows.
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Magic Warrior? Did that have a 1E equivalent?
Yes, a Magus Archetype in Inner Sea Intrigue tying into Jatembe mythos and Magaambyan arcane-druid fusion.
(Intrigue angle is because it's schtick is always wearing a mask which grants bonus vs scrying, nondetection, and animal aspect ability)| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Magic Warrior? Did that have a 1E equivalent?Yes, a Magus Archetype in Inner Sea Intrigue tying into Jatembe mythos and Magaambyan arcane-druid fusion.
(Intrigue angle is because it's schtick is always wearing a mask which grants bonus vs scrying, nondetection, and animal aspect ability)
Which means that Magic Warrior is likely the Magaambya-linked archetype.
Which means that Magic Warrior is likely the Magaambya-linked archetype.Magic Warrior? Did that have a 1E equivalent?Yes, a Magus Archetype in Inner Sea Intrigue tying into Jatembe mythos and Magaambyan arcane-druid fusion.
(Intrigue angle is because it's schtick is always wearing a mask which grants bonus vs scrying, nondetection, and animal aspect ability)
It is. From the Mwangi expanse blog: "Modern heroes who hope to emulate the powers and traditions of the Ten Magic Warriors and Old-Mage Jatembe may also take the magic warrior archetype."
So four out of the five orgs in LOCG we know build on archetypes in LOWG.
Which means we should expect something related to the last, the Firebrands, as the LPWG archetype for one of the two unrevealed regions. I'd guess Shining Kingdoms?
Does this mean we'll have a direct Gish option so soon? Yaaay!
I'd put money on us getting a Magaambyan Arcanist archetype.
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So i wonder if the magic warrior is going to be an early look into some kind of magus. Or whether it was only a magus in 1E because that was the best fit in that system
To be honest the only real magus ability that doesn’t seem covered by the change in action economy is delivering a spell through a weapon which didn’t seem to be one of the key features of the old magic warrior
But if the above is true perhaps the saga lands will get winter witch with the same idea (but it is not clear what that could build to like the other archetypes . Similarly do they all build to a “full” prestige - because the Mantis doesn’t seem to fit that either)
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What an interesting thread. ^_^
As another bit of info on all those ten Achetypes, all of them can be taken a level 2. Make of that what you will.
Info taken from an episode of Arcane Mark chatting with Luis Loza.
Do you mean the World Guide archetypes or the Character Guide archetypes?
I would be a little surprised if the Character Guide archetypes were available at level 2, since they seem to be "more advanced" versions of the level-2 World Guide archetypes (e.g., World Guide Hellknight Armiger goes into Character Guide Hellknight Signifier)
Thank you for this list.
Developer
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As another bit of info on all those ten Achetypes, all of them can be taken a level 2. Make of that what you will.
Info taken from an episode of Arcane Mark chatting with Luis Loza.
All of the WG1 archetype dedications are 2nd level feats. The archetype dedications in WG2 range from 2nd to 6th level, depending on the archetype.
All of the WG1 archetype dedications are 2nd level feats. The archetype dedications in WG2 range from 2nd to 6th level, depending on the archetype.As another bit of info on all those ten Achetypes, all of them can be taken a level 2. Make of that what you will.
Info taken from an episode of Arcane Mark chatting with Luis Loza.
That's what I figured. Thanks!!
Have these Firebrands been mentioned before? Maybe something from PFS?
Have these Firebrands been mentioned before? Maybe something from PFS?
I do not recall seeing them before the PF2 blogs. I think they are a newish group.
What do you think the new Heritages are? I’d bet at least one of them will be planetouched.
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Have these Firebrands been mentioned before? Maybe something from PFS?
I believe they are the Silver Ravens rebranded for operating outside of Ravounel/plausible deniability. Or at least they have ties to the SRs.
What do you think the new Heritages are? I’d bet at least one of them will be planetouched.
Not in a way most of us are expecting. The planetouched races, or rather, Planar Scions - as they are called in Paizo Products - have been confirmed to be in the Advanced Player's Guide.
If there are any Planar Scions in this book, that would be a really big surprise. But I suppose there are none.
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Have these Firebrands been mentioned before? Maybe something from PFS?I believe they are the Silver Ravens rebranded for operating outside of Ravounel/plausible deniability. Or at least they have ties to the SRs.
They have a bird for their badge in the CRB, and are described in the same execrable way. This is probable.
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What do you think the new Heritages are? I’d bet at least one of them will be planetouched.Not in a way most of us are expecting. The planetouched races, or rather, Planar Scions - as they are called in Paizo Products - have been confirmed to be in the Advanced Player's Guide.
If there are any Planar Scions in this book, that would be a really big surprise. But I suppose there are none.
Yeah, it would be wild to wait a year for aasimar, tieflings, and duskwalkers, but get another planetouched heritage before then.
Not that I’d cry if we saw genasi or ganzi sneak in, but I just don’t expect it.
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Genasi would be referred to as "geniekin", I suspect.
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They have a bird for their badge in the CRB, and are described in the same execrable way. This is probable.Have these Firebrands been mentioned before? Maybe something from PFS?I believe they are the Silver Ravens rebranded for operating outside of Ravounel/plausible deniability. Or at least they have ties to the SRs.
Yes, it seems likely. I'm not sure, though what is supposed to so execrable about being "united by a desire to fight oppression, oppose tyrannical regimes, free slaves, rescue the wrongfully accused" and "surprisingly difficult for oppressive governments and cruel religions to defeat."
Genasi would be referred to as "geniekin", I suspect.
Indeed, "genasi" and "planetouched" is Wizards of the Coast's IP terminology, andnot available via the OGL, so Paizo had to come up with thir own terms. Which is a good thing.
Yes, it seems likely. I'm not sure, though what is supposed to so execrable about being "united by a desire to fight oppression, oppose tyrannical regimes, free slaves, rescue the wrongfully accused" and "surprisingly difficult for oppressive governments and cruel religions to defeat."They have a bird for their badge in the CRB, and are described in the same execrable way. This is probable.Have these Firebrands been mentioned before? Maybe something from PFS?I believe they are the Silver Ravens rebranded for operating outside of Ravounel/plausible deniability. Or at least they have ties to the SRs.
Re_the italicised description...
Sounds a great deal like the Harpers (at least, during AD&D 2Ed iirc)....
I don't hate it! :D
--C.
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Are there going to be more ancestry feats? Please tell me there will be more ancestry feats. I find the CRB offerings are a "bare minimum" but in planning characters I've had more than a few times where I'm taking a level 1 ancestry feat at higher levels, and it's something I really wanted but I had to take something.
The only thing I can think of that there probably won't be any more of is non-Lore skills. There is room for growth everywhere else.
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Yes, it seems likely. I'm not sure, though what is supposed to so execrable about being "united by a desire to fight oppression, oppose tyrannical regimes, free slaves, rescue the wrongfully accused" and "surprisingly difficult for oppressive governments and cruel religions to defeat."They have a bird for their badge in the CRB, and are described in the same execrable way. This is probable.Have these Firebrands been mentioned before? Maybe something from PFS?I believe they are the Silver Ravens rebranded for operating outside of Ravounel/plausible deniability. Or at least they have ties to the SRs.
Depends on which side of all that you're on, I expect.
The only thing I can think of that there probably won't be any more of is non-Lore skills. There is room for growth everywhere else.
No new ability scores either. That would throw things even more out of whack than a new non-Lore skill would.
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Yes, it seems likely. I'm not sure, though what is supposed to so execrable about being "united by a desire to fight oppression, oppose tyrannical regimes, free slaves, rescue the wrongfully accused" and "surprisingly difficult for oppressive governments and cruel religions to defeat."They have a bird for their badge in the CRB, and are described in the same execrable way. This is probable.Have these Firebrands been mentioned before? Maybe something from PFS?I believe they are the Silver Ravens rebranded for operating outside of Ravounel/plausible deniability. Or at least they have ties to the SRs.
Look to their methods, not motives. I'm away from book at the moment, but they are 1) ineffective at both advancing the stated goals and at making repression difficult and 2) highly individualistic and substitutionist.
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Look to their methods, not motives. I'm away from book at the moment, but they are 1) ineffective at both advancing the stated goals and at making repression difficult and 2) highly individualistic and substitutionist.Yes, it seems likely. I'm not sure, though what is supposed to so execrable about being "united by a desire to fight oppression, oppose tyrannical regimes, free slaves, rescue the wrongfully accused" and "surprisingly difficult for oppressive governments and cruel religions to defeat."They have a bird for their badge in the CRB, and are described in the same execrable way. This is probable.Have these Firebrands been mentioned before? Maybe something from PFS?I believe they are the Silver Ravens rebranded for operating outside of Ravounel/plausible deniability. Or at least they have ties to the SRs.
I'm not away from my book and you're 1) is dead wrong.
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I'm not away from my book and you're 1) is dead wrong.Look to their methods, not motives. I'm away from book at the moment, but they are 1) ineffective at both advancing the stated goals and at making repression difficult and 2) highly individualistic and substitutionist.Yes, it seems likely. I'm not sure, though what is supposed to so execrable about being "united by a desire to fight oppression, oppose tyrannical regimes, free slaves, rescue the wrongfully accused" and "surprisingly difficult for oppressive governments and cruel religions to defeat."They have a bird for their badge in the CRB, and are described in the same execrable way. This is probable.Have these Firebrands been mentioned before? Maybe something from PFS?I believe they are the Silver Ravens rebranded for operating outside of Ravounel/plausible deniability. Or at least they have ties to the SRs.
Yes, the book says they have proved "difficult to defeat." My point is that there is nothing about their method of intervention - "swashbuckling" and "entertaining" - or their method of organizing - variously described as "loose" and "disorganized," though these are by no means synonyms, and also as "jolly cooperation" which suggests eclecticism and dilettantism more than anything else - that says that should be so. The book implicitly agrees with me. It calls the fact that they haven't been rooted out "surprising," all but admitting that they continue to exist either 1) because their enemies are even stupider than they are, which makes for un-compelling villains or 2) by pure author fiat.
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Yes, the book says they have proved "difficult to defeat." My point is that there is nothing about their method of intervention - "swashbuckling" and "entertaining" - or their method of organizing - variously described as "loose" and "disorganized," though these are by no means synonyms, and also as "jolly cooperation" which suggests eclecticism and dilettantism more than anything else - that says that should be so.
You're reading a lot into that description. Like, a lot of stuff that doesn't actually follow logically from the premise. You seem to do that a lot.
The book implicitly agrees with me.
It does not. The fact that their success is surprising could easily also mean there's some reason for their success that is not immediately obvious. Indeed, it almost has to mean that. That in no way makes them ineffective.
It calls the fact that they haven't been rooted out "surprising," all but admitting that they continue to exist either 1) because their enemies are even stupider than they are, which makes for un-compelling villains or 2) by pure author fiat.
Or there are intervening variables that don't fit in a paragraph.
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The book implicitly agrees with me.It really doesn't. In the slightest.
The book gave a paragraph about a loosely connected group of rebels fighting against an evil empire. We're not gonna get super detailed information until they get their own book or start showing up in Adventures.
And yet words, even words that appear in cursory descriptions, mean things. Indeed, brevity means they are freighted with even more meaning than they might otherwise have. Especially if the short description is meant to sell a player on affiliating their adventurer with the faction.
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Super excited to see the Magaambya presented as a major group.
I have to say, I’m definitely feeling the lack of a martial order in the Expanse; something like Guild Wars’ Sunspears woukd be a ready fit, and a nice change from all the knightly orders elsewhere.
no assassin archetype ? I dont talk here of the red mantis assassin but the ``traditionel`` one like with the death attack.
I imagine a more generic assassin would be in a product that isn't specifically devoted to the setting.
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no assassin archetype ? I dont talk here of the red mantis assassin but the ``traditionel`` one like with the death attack.
This is a book where all the Archetypes are tied to specific factions in the lore of the canon setting. Generic/traditional archetypes have their place - in the APG.
no assassin archetype ? I dont talk here of the red mantis assassin but the ``traditionel`` one like with the death attack.This is a book where all the Archetypes are tied to specific factions in the lore of the canon setting. Generic/traditional archetypes have their place - in the APG.
ok thanks you for the respond.
I wonder how much Hellknight lovin there will be in this book?