So according to Nethys, Breeech Loader is an advanced weapon (I do not have the PDF/booklet to confirm this. I think d20 listed it as an early firearm but I defualt with nethtys usually). And that it is a double pistol variant.
However. Breech Loader does less damage at 1d6. Less Crit multi. It does have lessmisfire (1) though.
It reloads both barrels as a Standard, or as a move with rapid reload.
Then we have the early firearm, Double Barrel Pistol. It has a higher die, higher crit multiplier. but has misfire 1-2. But it has no specific language on reloading, it is a one handed firearm. Meaning its subjet to normal reloading rules.
So with the rapid reload feat. it would reload as a move action for both barrels. However, an early firearms double pistol can reload both barrels as a free action.
So.. is there a functional reason for the advanced breechloader? Is it because advanced firearms get Touch AC further out, and can't explode, that warrents reloading slower, and doing less damage in every aspect? Also metal carts mean you can'tuse various effects without GM clearence (some magic items are alchemical carts for instance Mage Shot)
Can anyone think of a reason for this weapon? Other than rule of cool anyway. because it is utterly cool.
The only idea I really come up with is the benefit of advanced weapons when it comes to gun scavanger archetype. Since you can attach Scatter to it and the broken condition is far less dangerous for you. (extra points if the GM alllows metal carts of various alchemical and magic item carts)
I'm also wondering if I missed any FAQs about the double barrel pistol in general as I have vague memories but haven't run into anything ( but honestly I have a hard time finding where FAQs are)
Resources:
Normal rules (on double barrel). Standard to reloaod each barrerl, or flll round action to reload both barrels.
Rapid reload: reloading is a move action for one anded firearms. (Meaning instead of a standard to reload both, it would be a move I think? Or does the normal rules for double barrels cause a conflict?)
(as an entirely aside note: Prerequisite: Weapon Proficiency (crossbow type chosen) or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm). I just realized it makes you choose crossbow by type. but is for all firearms. Meaning you have to deliniate for xbows, but for firearms it applys to all? I don't think its intended that way though. Though the special mentions new type of firearm.)
Alchemical Carts: Alchemical cartridges make loading a firearm easier, reducing the time to load a firearm by one step (a full-round action becomes a standard action, a standard action becomes a move action, and a move action becomes a free action)
Links:
Breech loader
DBpistol
I'm not sure why they'd be Advanced weapons (both this one and the Air repeater, from the same source). They're Alkenstar weapons, as I understand it, and available as is, if more uncommon than the usual firearms.
In Golarion I expect they'd be early firearms, like everything else. Advanced guns aren't a thing yet in this world, so Nethys might be wrong for once.
Someone with the companion could confirm for sure.
It's however not really a challenger for the DBPistol : both barrels can't be shot at the same time. It's more of a regular pistol or dragoon alternative at best.
Altogether not great, a weapon for those not specialized in gun usage, probably.
It's probably advanced because breech loading is advanced technology compared to muzzle loading.
The issue is that, the main benefit, decreased load times, aren't reflected in the stats of the weapon. It probably should have reloaded 1 barrel as a move action (both as a standard). With Rapid Reload it would reduce the load time to a free action, and so both could be reloaded (effectively) for free.
But that's not at all how its written.
Nyerkh wrote:
It's however not really a challenger for the DBPistol : both barrels can't be shot at the same time. It's more of a regular pistol or dragoon alternative at best.
Altogether not great, a weapon for those not specialized in gun usage, probably. What do you mean? It should be able to fire both barrels as a single action, the same as a DBPistol.
"This double-barreled pistol variant" meaning it should operate the same no?
if it didn't follow the same rules it wouldnt' be a varient correct?
The book doesn't say whether it's an early or advanced firearm. It'd super underpowered compared to advanced firearms, though.
Ah yeah that complicates it.
I put this on reddit as well, some folks mentioned that it wasn't listed.
I don't remember their exact wording but apparently they're common level weapons to the setting (this and the air repeater).
And that setting exists in standard Paizo world. So by their reckoning they should be just rare early firearms..?
Which I guess would make the numbers on both of those weapons more reasonable (and how difficult ammo for repepater is to get outside of that corner of the world).
Sounds fairly reasonable logical conclusion. Only hiccup would be the breech loading in history using metal cartridges (and I don't think existing during the time of paper carts). but not like one should apply real world to an RP game.
Though it is hard to imagine how it would work, as a breech loader, with loose powder and ball. Which lends itself to the idea of metal carts.
Quote: Heroes of Garund
Garund holds many civilizations, both ancient and modern,
and the people there use sophisticated technology, magic,
and social customs to command the respect of other nations.
ALKENSTAR GUNS AND AMMUNITION
The following new guns and ammunition are available to
players with access to firearms technology from Alkenstar.
See Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat for more on firearms.
Don't ask me what that means in practice, I don't even know what Alkenstar is.
Zwordsman wrote: Only hiccup would be the breech loading in history using metal cartridges (and I don't think existing during the time of paper carts). I can only go by what Wikipedia says, which does say that breechloaders were invented centuries before metal cartridges.
Of course, Pathfinder firearms are a ridiculously anachronistic anyway, so it doesn't really make a difference.
Haha yeah.. I don't know what that means in practice either. Alkenstar I believe is another subsection of the world. Kind of like Numeria with tech, or that no magic area and certain guns/feats (Forget the name...)
No clue where it is in the world though.
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Yeah it seems that there were breechloaders with paper carts. Which certainly helps the idea that this was all mean to be early. Not that Pathfinderh as any real relation to historical similarties.
Also realized, from doing various readings. that while they've had plenty of Early Firearms come out. I don't think they've ever released an advanced firearm since Ultimate combat? Sure they've had "modern firearms' once but that was a specific AP.
On the whole it seems like Paizo does not make advanced firearms..
I'm gonna guess its just a early firearm that was made to prioritize the reload without alch carts or something.
Which.. I guess it saves you a little money? and misefire chance.
Well. I think its also very good for users of Shot on the Run who dip Black Powder Vaulter for a move action reload.
or well. actually maybe Shot on the Run won't work as BPVaulter calls out move action rather than movement..?
but still good for folks who want to keep moving.
Gunchemist+Fast ordience comes to mind. Move, load both barrels, infuse both with bombs, fire both barrels/bombs.
...hrm but gunchemist also calls out multiple bombs on a full attack action. so maybe that won't work either?
Zwordsman wrote: I think its also very good for users of Shot on the Run who dip Black Powder Vaulter for a move action reload.
or well. actually maybe Shot on the Run won't work as BPVaulter calls out move action rather than movement..?
The reload ability does work with Shot on the Run come 3rd level, but SotR itself only allows a single attack, (two at 11th level via a different archetype ability), and that's just not enough to be a contributing member of the party.
Zwordsman wrote: gunchemist also calls out multiple bombs on a full attack action. so maybe that won't work either? This does indeed not work, Fast Ordnance only works with a full-attack action (that's because double barreled firearm's modified standard attack action isn't something that's supposed to exist).
Balance wise, they needed to keep breechloaders from being a move action to reload, because it would have made them the only pistol anyone would ever use.
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