Important doubt about Fiendish Summoning


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I always thought you called a fiend to the material plane (either through Summon Monster or Planar ally) and that both he and the caster WISHED that it could stay forever if possible.

But then I carefully read the wording of the Ritual called Fiendish Conjuration and noticed something very weird - if some things happen (some things the caster can intentionally fail or mess with), then the Demon is now not required to follow the orders of the caster AND can stay indefinitely in the material plane?!

This makes no sense. Demoniacs or followers of the Demon Lords would actively wish them to stay permanently, and thus if it's so easy as to require only you to actively fail (or mess with the circle), then every Demoniac summoner would be doing that.

Or is there something I didn't get? Then again, at level 9 we have the GATE spell (or at least, my cleric character has), why not just transform this into a Gate then?

FIENDISH CONJURATION

School conjuration (calling) [evil]; Level 9
Casting Time 90 minutes

Components V, S, M (rare incense worth 1,000 gp), F (a conjuration circle and an offering pleasing to the fiend, such as a sacrifice or trapped soul of CR equal to the fiend’s CR + 1)

Skill Checks Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate DC 34, 4 successes; Knowledge (arcana) DC 34, 1 success; Knowledge (planes) DC 34, 1 success; Linguistics DC 34, 2 successes; Spellcraft DC 34, 1 success Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./character level of the caster)

Target one evil outsider
Duration 1 hour/character level of the caster
Saving Throw none (see text); SR no Backlash The caster becomes exhausted.
Failure The conjured fiend escapes from its conjuration circle.
Its actions can vary, but most escaped fiends eagerly attack their conjurers for at least a few rounds before teleporting or otherwise fleeing into the world to begin a reign of terror.

EFFECT
The first 20 minutes of the ritual of fiendish conjuration involve preparing the conjuration circle and inscribing the appropriate names around the circle. This step involves attempting both Linguistics checks; if the conjuration circle is permanently inscribed and has been successfully used for this ritual at any point in the past, these Linguistics checks are attempted with a +5 bonus.

The next 30 minutes of the ritual invokes the fiend, involving the Knowledge and Spellcraft checks; if the fiend’s true name is used, these checks are attempted with a +5 bonus. At the start of the final 40 minutes, the smoky, indistinct shape of the fiend manifests within the circle, at which point the caster must attempt the final four Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate checks. Once this stage is reached, the fiend manifests in the flesh at the end of the ritual regardless of the ritual’s success or failure, but only if the ritual is successful is the fiend trapped within the conjuration circle and unable to visit harm upon the caster.

If the ritual is successful, the fiend remains on the Material Plane for a number of hours equal to the caster’s character level, during which the caster makes an offering to the fiend and asks for its aid. If the caster’s alignment is the same as the fiend’s, the fiend automatically agrees to perform a service that takes no more time to perform than the ritual’s duration. A fiend will agree to perform a longer task if it is given an additional offering for its services. Each offering given must be of equal or greater value to the one given during the ritual’s casting and secures the fiend’s cooperation for an additional number of hours equal to the caster’s character level. At the caster’s discretion, the start time for these additional hours can be delayed until a certain circumstance arises, at which point the fiend immediately reappears in its original conjuration circle and can immediately depart to complete its task.

If the fiend’s true name was used during the ritual, all of these periods of time normally measured in hours (including the ritual’s initial duration) are instead measured in days. If at any point during the fiend’s servitude the caster is slain or the original conjuration circle is damaged, the fiend can attempt a Will save to escape the ritual’s binding power. If successful, the fiend is no longer bound to perform the task it has been ordered to do and can remain on the Material Plane for as long as it wishes.


There are a lot of people who are willing to mess around with forces that they barely understand. Many of those same people have never thought about the consequences or think they will ever face those consequences.


"Then again, at level 9 we have the GATE spell (or at least, my cleric character has), why not just transform this into a Gate then?"

The conditions exist for people who want to succeed on them, who don't want the outcome of failure or a Gate.
If you don't care, or actively want it, the fact the two spells of same level can have similar outcome is just superfluous.
What is concrete harm or disruption by allowing two spells of same level to have similar effect?

Guess what, I just did Spell Research and made up another spell that also does the same thing, but with sound effect of dragon farting.
Superfluousness is often found in the game, it doesn't generally hurt anything.


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While that 'fiend is free into the world indefinitely' part might seem appealing, the ritual notes that the fiend most likely will attack the summoner once the bind power is gone after a failure.

Foolish summoners try this, and then they get eaten by their fiend. Smart summoners spent a whole lot of time and effort studying to get that smart, and they often filled with pride and hubris. So even if they are deep into demon worship, they might think their dark lords are better served by having them alive and helping out with the baby sacrifices/etc.

Note- Daemons are known for intentionally spreading bootleg instruction manuals for summoning rituals, and you can be sure that it is missing some important steps- which leads to auto failure and loss of binding power. Very few summoners live long enough to file complaints with the summoner, or to write notes warning the next user of the manual.


...This thread makes me want to go read Ptolemy's Gate again.

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