The relationship of Spellcasting ability and Spell Slots

[CloudCobra]

How does Spellcasting and Spell Slots interacted with each other?

1) Can you have spellcasting ability without the need of spell slots?

2) Can you have spell slots without needing the spellcasting ability?

3) Do you have to have both to be a spellcaster?

4) Can I be a spellcaster though I have neither?

Example 1: Spirit Possession (Jade Regent: Forest of Spirits, p.15) or Fiendish Possession (Council of Thieves: The Infernal Syndrome, pp.56-63) but that's a big MAYBE.

Example 2:
I guess the Medium, Mesmerist, Occultist, Psychic and Spiritualist class would now fit into this category.

The Oracle seems to require the Mystery ability to be able to use its spell slots.

Pact Certain or Pact Insidious (D&D 3.5 Fiendish Codex II)/Infernal Contract (Pathfinder) and bargain for an additional spell slot. Does the spell slot allow you to cast without having spellcasting? ;
Magical Training feat [maybe?] (D&D 3.5 - Player's Guide to Faerun);
A pearl of power might also fit into this example.

Example 3: The caster classes; Belt of the Dread Emperor (D&D 3.5 Book of Vile Darkness); Rituals (D&D 3.5 - Savage Species)

Example 4: Occult Rituals (Pathfinder: Occult Adventures) - although the rules are not very specific on the topic; Incantations (D&D 3.5 - Unearthed Arcana); Sacrifice Reward System (D&D 3.5 - Book of Vile Darkness); Silver Spindle Ioun Stone; all traits that provide spell-like abilities; Kineticist class [maybe?]

Maybe I'm just splitting hairs but technically-speaking it had to have come from somewhere before there were spellcasting classes...

[willuwontu]

This seems like more of an general/advice/homebrew post, than a rules question.

[blahpers]

1. If spell-like abilities count, lots of creatures have such abilities, sometimes at will. And some niche abilities grant a character a limited amount of spellcasting without any real slots.

2. Those classes are still spellcasters.

3. See 1.

4. Occult rituals are not spells, though they are described as "another form of spellcasting", so there's that I suppose. Kineticists are not spellcasters.

Is there a context for these questions? Otherwise, I agree with willuwontu--this isn't so much about rules than it is about theme and setting.

[Azothath]

essentially there is no interaction in the way you describe, nor is there a direct connection.

Spellcraft is a class skill magic using classes get as part of the class. It has various functions in the game. Every (intelligent) creature can learn the skill by expending ranks in the skill.

Spell slots, again, are part of various magic using classes. Those actually determine up to how many spells a caster can use on a daily basis.

I'd just read more in the Core Rule Book and figure out how Sorcerers, Wizards, Bards, Clerics, and Druids work. That should answer most of your questions.

Spell-like Abilities(SLA) are not considered casting, although there are similarities.

[Agénor]

Azothath wrote:

Spellcraft is a class skill magic using classes get as part of the class. It has various functions in the game. Every (intelligent) creature can learn the skill by expending ranks in the skill.

I believe the OP meant spell-casting, in plain English, as in the ability to wield the forces of magic to produce an effect, predictable and desired most of the time, rather than Spellcraft, as the skill per the rules, which reflects knowledge of those aforementionned effects.

If spell-casting is the ability to convert potential/stored/latent magic energy into an effect or another, spell-slots are the storage tanks.
On the top of my head, I can't think of a spell-caster that doesn't use slots in Pathfinder but I can easily imagine a system with a pool of mana rather than vancian magic. The Monk class has something akin to it, the Sorcerer class of D&D 5e does this, many video games have this....

[Meirril]

1) Prepared casters do not get 'spell slots', 'spell slots' are a mechanic used by spontaneous casters typically exemplified by Sorcerers and Oracles. So prepared casters like Wizards do indeed have spellcasting ability without spell slots. But Wizards and other prepared casters do have a daily spell allotment they are allowed to prepare that is modified by their primary casting stat.

2) No. Any class or ability that would allow you to have spell slots would also instruct you on how to use them.

3) Technically, yes. Especially if you need to qualify as a spell caster.

4) Pathfinder has done a very extensive job of cutting off the ability to be counted as a spell caster without having at least 1 level in a class that has spell casting as an ability. Taking any class that offers 0 or more spells at first level (not a -, - means no spells available at this level) would qualify you.

[CloudCobra]

That's my bad, I was using D&D 3.5 terminology. It does seem that "Spells" is an actual class ability, but it seems that accessing that ability is different.

Quote:

If spell-casting is the ability to convert potential/stored/latent magic energy into an effect or another, spell-slots are the storage tanks.

That would make a LOT of sense. So, EVEN IF a character would obtain spell slots it would essentially be nothing more than his body having gained a storage medium. However, the character still does NOT have a way to unlock that potential. That would then seem to entail another step. And it's THAT step that seems to be giving me the headache to work out mechanically. How would you explain that source? Well, it's theme- or story-based.

Quote:

Essentially there is no interaction in the way you describe, nor is there a direct connection.

And I'm starting to lean towards that myself. At that point it would basically just come down to just simply saying "Okay, we'll just use the Retraining rules." BOOM, you took your step from a Commoner to a Commoner with unusable spell slots to a [insert new class].

I guess we can leave it at that...Thanks for the input, guys. That did help. *thumbs up*

[Cevah]

CloudCobra wrote:

How does Spellcasting and Spell Slots interacted with each other?

1) Can you have spellcasting ability without the need of spell slots?

2) Can you have spell slots without needing the spellcasting ability?

3) Do you have to have both to be a spellcaster?

4) Can I be a spellcaster though I have neither?

1: Low level Paladins and Rangers do not have slots but can use scrolls and wands as regular casters. Thus they can cast without slots.

2: Don't think so. Not 100% sure. Yes. If your casting stat is too low. A wizard with 9 Int and no ranks in UMD cannot cast a spell.

3: No. The UMD skill does this.

4: Yes, if you depend on UMD.

[edit: recalled stat issue]

/cevah