The rules answer is that it doesn’t hurt their stealth check, but it certainly seems like a defensible home ruling to impose a penalty if you decide that stuff like that is noisy or eye catching in your world.
Compare to the noise and light that weapons make: a laser rifle, sonic explosion heavy weapon, and small arm projectile weapon apparently all impose the exact same modifier to sniping from stealth, and only the projectile weapons have available accessories to reduce their noise and light output.
Everything powered makes sound.
Can't agree with this. You only have to see a modern day electric car and you can realize it really does not make any audible sounds other than the tires unless you are right next to it or inside the vehicle.
Adding some science fantasy in thatand you should be quite soundless.
Everything powered makes sound.Can't agree with this. You only have to see a modern day electric car and you can realize it really does not make any audible sounds other than the tires unless you are right next to it or inside the vehicle.
Adding some science fantasy in thatand you should be quite soundless.
Ehh....it's not that simple.
Some things might make sounds. Some might not.
The easiest ruling is that unless items explicitly state that they impose a penalty to stealth that they don't. Attacking breaks stealth in general.
The "Rules Question" answer here is that there is no official special rule about visibility of jump jets, specifically, though all other rules of stealth would still apply (penalty if moving more than half speed, needing to begin and end with cover or concealment, etc.
As an Advice question, though, it is perfectly reasonable for any piece of gear, jump jets included, to be bright or noisy enough to provide a circumstance penalty, possibly a large one, to stealth attempts. If you go that route, though, you should take pains to be sure that those penalties are clear and consistent, so that your players will know what to expect of their gear and wI'll be able to plan accordingly.
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Everything powered makes sound.Can't agree with this.
It doesn't seem to me that you read the rest of my post, because I agree with the rest of yours.
My point was that putting ranks in Stealth is the "science fantasy" you'd need to tone down the volume of your Jump Jets (or whatever else it is you're wearing).
Well, they can't attempt a stealth check if they start their turn someplace that doesn't give cover or concealment, without some other special ability. So that covers "plain view".
If they move through "plain view" using jump jets, it would be reasonabe to impose up to a -4 penalty to the players stealth (or better yet a +4 bonus to perception for the enemy). That way you can just do it on your end as a GM. Just be fair an consistent with the practice.
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If I'm reading correctly, they're saying that you're making a pretty huge assumption without any actual grounding. Which I'd certainly say is the case - there is zero reason to assume that everything powered makes sound. For example, I'm extremely certain that a Holoskin (which does use power) does not make sound.Everything powered makes sound.Can't agree with this.It doesn't seem to me that you read the rest of my post, because I agree with the rest of yours.
My point was that putting ranks in Stealth is the "science fantasy" you'd need to tone down the volume of your Jump Jets (or whatever else it is you're wearing).
I am not making any assumptions. What you are suggesting requires houserules, and this is the Rules Forum, so I'm giving the answer the books support.
There is literally zero difference between a holoskin, jet pack, hover drone, comm unit, or any other piece of technology when it comes to Stealth.
Unless the item description tells us it imparts a penalty or bonus, it doesn't.
The difference between the archvillain sneaking up the side of the building using a jet pack and the hero about to engage in an aerial battle using the same model of thrusters is that one of them put ranks into Stealth.
Flavor it however you want - technique, technological silencing goo, sound muffling antimatter, whatever - but the mechanical difference is a higher investment in the Stealth skill.
That's it.
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So Androids and Borais get a bonus to stealth rolls for not having to breathe? Cool!You can even take "powered" out of the equation.
Breathing makes sound.
Some people are simply quieter at it than others.
Alas, the background mechanical noises of Androids are exactly as loud as breathing, as are the crackling bone/decay sounds of Borais. Weird coincidence.
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decay soundsDude. Gross.
I don't know if this is xenophobia or necrophobia, but I know I'm against it.
Wait. Who told you that borais don't breathe?
From the Boria description:
Borais still need to eat, breathe, and sleep, just like any living creature, but they age at radically slowed rates, allowing them to live for a few additional centuries.
Honestly, Boria have a lot more in common with the living than the undead.
And weirdly, make Androids have to breath.
It may be both the plural and singular version.
Once you accept that in Starfinder laser pistols and machine guns make the same amount of light and noise, except that the machine gun can be suppressed and silenced for easier sniping, while the laser pistol can't, all else becomes easier.
To be fair, most kinds of electronics make some sort of noise.
Heck, powerful enough electrical sources can generate sound all on their own just from the flow of electricity. So it's reasonable to say that electronics probably make some sort of noise, none are likely to be completely utterly silent.
However, how much noise it makes will depend on the item.
In general if items don't call out a penalty for stealth checks or a bonus to perception checks to notice them, then they probably shouldn't have one.
And for all other times that why GMs have circumstance penalty/bonuses they can add.
A firearm not being fired "doesn't make any noise". But if you're trying to be silent, and try to reload a firearm, real life experience will tell you that the mechanism will make noise when you feed the magazine into the receiver, and make a much louder noise when you cycle the bolt/slide/etc to chamber the first round.
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Note that, in real life, weapons grade lasers are far from silent. Even if the laser itself doesn't make any sound in operation ( and given that amount of energy involved in generating the beam, this is unlikely )? As long as the beam itself is passing through air, its going to make noise, a lot of noise. Think "bolt of lightning", for more or less the same reason: you are dumping huge amounts of heat into the ambient air.
In space, everyone can hear your laser scream.
Anyway, how much noise do jump jets make? That is up to the GM, but logically they should make non-trivial amounts of noise, for the same reason weapons make non-trivial amounts of noise. Does this mean you can't make Stealth checks with jump jets? Of course not, it just means you face the same kind of penalties as you otherwise would for trying to sneak while making noise.
There are no penalties for sneaking "while making noise." There are penalties for hiding while moving over half your speed, after creating a diversion, or after taking a ranged attack. The only way jump jets matter is if you use them to jump/fly more than half their 30' allowed speed in a single move action.
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There are entirely penalties for sneaking while making noise. If you wish to prove this, next time you play Starfinder, tell your GM that your character is loudly singing Gilbert & Sullivan while attempting to ninja infiltrate an enemy compound.
No thanks, I'll just tell him I'm ninja inflitrating an enemy compound using Paizo published equipment that doesn't provide for any penalties to stealth when using it. Should be fine!
But of course loudly singing Gilbert & Sullivan inside armor with its environmental protections on wouldn't be audible outside unless I wanted it to be.
Wait. Who told you that borais don't breathe?
I have a player who thinks he's playing an anroid borai, according to the concept of a very old android "roughly brought back to life" after being discovered in an old junkyard (inspired by Gunm, Battle Angel Alita). But according to the description a borai is supposed to breathe. Which does not fit either with an android (which does not breathe), nor with life on Eox (in the description it is said that a majority of Borais live on Eox, which has no more atmosphere and is irradiated). Isn't there something wrong with this? A Borai should not breathe and not suffer the normal environmental effects of vacuum. Right?
From the Boria description:
Borais still need to eat, breathe, and sleep, just like any living creature, but they age at radically slowed rates, allowing them to live for a few additional centuries.Honestly, Boria have a lot more in common with the living than the undead.
And weirdly, make Androids have to breath.
The borais remind me of the dhampirs from Pathfinder 1, the half-undead Special Subtype from the Advanced Race Guide and the revenant from the films and comics "The Crow" : that is to say a half-undead more alive than dead. But due to the fact that a borai can be an ancient android and the fact that borais mostly live on Eox, a Borai should not need to breathe, nor fear radiation or other environmental effects.