Some things I am wondering:
Make them mute
Make them illiterate
Make them sterile
Make it impossible for them to sleep (which would be fatal eventually)
Give them a vulnerability to an energy type (Guessing this would require bestow greater curse).
I would cap falling asleep to be voluntary sleep. They'd bodily succumb to pure exhaustion but any kind of night time routine or laying down on your own? Nah. So more insomnia I guess, imo.
Vulnerability to elements is something particular. While not particular enough to say outright no to, I wouldn't be comfortable with that.
The rest seem ok.
Is it no more powerful than making a creature lose all of their memories, class abilities, feats, and skill ranks? Then bestow curse can do it.
Make them mute
Yes.
Make them illiterate
Yes.
Make them sterile
Yes.
Make it impossible for them to sleep (which would be fatal eventually)
No, but it could make their sleep poorly enough that they wake up fatigued every day, or instead leave them unable to regain spent uses of abilities that require rest to recover.
(Edit: If it killed them no more quickly than the curse of the ages, then it would be within the bounds of greater bestow curse.)
Give them a vulnerability to an energy type (Guessing this would require bestow greater curse).
Yes. For most characters, getting a -6 penalty to Constitution is worse than taking 50% more damage from a single energy type.
None of the "yes" answers here require greater bestow curse; they're all within the bounds of bestow curse.
Can you use multiple curses to make them vulnerable to multiple damage types? There doesn't seem to be a limit to how many curses someone can suffer from, although I wouldn't allow the exact same kind of curse (such as -6 con) to stack with itself.
Is it no more powerful than making a creature lose all of their memories, class abilities, feats, and skill ranks? Then bestow curse can do it.
I don't buy that. Bestow Curse has three functionalities, as I read it:
You place a curse on the subject. Choose one of the following.
-6 decrease to an ability score (minimum 1).
-4 penalty on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks.
Each turn, the target has a 50% chance to act normally; otherwise, it takes no action.
Bestow curse allows the caster to invent a novel effect, but one no more powerful than those described in the spell itself (no worse than a 50% chance of losing actions, a –4 penalty on checks, or a –6 penalty to an ability score).
Insanity can also be inflicted via magic. Consider allowing the spell insanity to merely inflict 1 randomly determined insanity per 5 caster levels on its victim rather than causing permanent confusion. Bestow curse can also inflict a single insanity on a foe, although in this case the insanity is also a curse.
Nowhere does it say you can invent a novel effect as long as it is not more powerful than an insanity. The ability to inflict an insanity is not "described in the spell itself", but part of the rules on madness.
Can someone answer my question about multiple curses?
Can someone answer my question about multiple curses?
To my knowledge you can cast Bestow Curse multiple time and inflicting different afflictions.
I've done several times with my Witch Character.
I agree with Pizza Lord, and also agree Invisible Pink that Blahpers comparison to amnesia isn't correct, since as far as I can see you can't bestow amnesia with Bestow Curse.
I agree with Pizza Lord, and also agree Invisible Pink that Blahpers comparison to amnesia isn't correct, since as far as I can see you can't bestow amnesia with Bestow Curse.
Amnesia is an insanity, and the Madness rules allow you to inflict an insanity with Bestow Curse. You just can't make novel curses that are up to as powerful as Amnesia, like you can with the other things Bestow Curse can inflict.
How about curse them so they end every sentence with a really sarcastic "Einstein" (or whatever the Pathfinder equivalent is, Nethys maybe). Wouldn't be dangerous in combat but I doubt they'd have any friends for long.
I agree with Pizza Lord, and also agree Invisible Pink that Blahpers comparison to amnesia isn't correct, since as far as I can see you can't bestow amnesia with Bestow Curse.Amnesia is an insanity, and the Madness rules allow you to inflict an insanity with Bestow Curse. You just can't make novel curses that are up to as powerful as Amnesia, like you can with the other things Bestow Curse can inflict.
Yeah...I'm not a fan of the madness rules. I looked at them once and felt they made the game way too Call of Cthulhu. Also, amnesia is way worse than anything else Bestow Curse can regularly do, IMO.
It's the Curse of "You're a commoner". Honestly, it's far worse than a 50% chance to take no action. Basically unless you're a low level melee character amnesia is way worse than losing half your actions.
I'd go against making the target mute however. While a character hit by Bestow Curse is out of the fight, making a target mute means they can't cast remove curse or even ask for it if they survive. That makes it stronger.
Mute doesn't mean they can't write down the request to get their curse removed.
And they aren't out of the fight either, unless they are a caster without Silent Spell. IMO it is less severe than the 50% chance to take no action.
I'd go against making the target mute however. While a character hit by Bestow Curse is out of the fight, making a target mute means they can't cast remove curse or even ask for it if they survive. That makes it stronger.
Mute doesn't mean they can't write down the request to get their curse removed.
And they aren't out of the fight either, unless they are a caster without Silent Spell. IMO it is less severe than the 50% chance to take no action.
I think you just hit the nail on the head, it's not that bad unless they're a caster. There might have to be some provision for casting spells in the curse or I feel like it's overpowered. Silence is only a 2nd level spell, but it's also only 1 round/level.
Split the difference and give them a stutter. 50% spell failure for spells with vocal components, and Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Bluff checks involving speech take longer and have a penalty.
Blaphers, since bestow curse can regularly make anyone lose their actions 50% of the time I might be inclined to make the spell failure chance a bit higher than 50%. I might do 60%, or even 75%. Otherwise you're better off just giving them a 50% chance to do nothing.
Blaphers, since bestow curse can regularly make anyone lose their actions 50% of the time I might be inclined to make the spell failure chance a bit higher than 50%. I might do 60%, or even 75%. Otherwise you're better off just giving them a 50% chance to do nothing.
Sure! Since we've put aside the madness applications as reference points, I decided to be conservative about it and tack on the speech penalties instead to make it not-quite-strictly-worse than the 50% do-nothing option.
That's very fair.
Do you agree that the madness rules are bit out there compared to the original rules for what could be done with Bestow Curse? This is more out of curiosity. Madness rules are an optional system, and one I don't personally care for, but it's not wrong to say it's an option. This specific instance to me highlights why the madness rules weren't well thought out.
To me the real baseline I use for the power level of Bestow Curse is the 50% chance to do nothing. That is a really powerful effect by itself. So I have to compare, is this thing worse than doing nothing half of the time.
With something like spell failure chance, 50% would be a minimum since it's basically equivalent to 50% chance to do nothing. But every caster class has abilities that aren't spells that allow them to do something. They might not be great options, but you have options besides doing nothing. So to me you have to thread the needle and say, maybe just a bit higher chance not to cast spells. I'm not sure on an exact number, but it's a framework for ideas.
Yeah, they are a bit extreme, especially for something long predating Horror Adventures, where it's much more obvious that you're opting into a more hardcore rules environment.
The lot of you have also convinced me to stick with the spell descriptions when comparing instead of the various extensions to said spells sprinkled throughout the other rules. The 50% is a great baseline, as is the -6 to an ability score, depending on what effective you're judging. These are fiddly spells that encourage creative thinking, and that always makes things a bit harder to judge. (In my case, "that sounds like a really cool curse" can be a heck of a bias to watch out for!)